E-COMMERCE & 4X4 TUNING

Explore the world of digital transformation in the automotive industry with Hamid Shah, CEO of the4X4.com, a niche online marketplace for off-roading enthusiasts. In this episode, Hamid provides an expert insight on Digitalization in the automotive aftermarket industry; sharing tips on how to efficiently implement selling through online platforms. 

Whether you are and industry enthusiast or a serial entrepreneur, tune in! 

For more info, Please visit our website: https://mcb.ae/

Follow us on social media:
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mineral-circles-bearings-fzco
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mineralcircles/
-Twitter: https://twitter.com/MineralCircles
-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MineralCircles/

#bearings #bearingmanufacturer #bearingsupplier #wikibearings

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Wiki bearings, where we dive into the worlds of engineering excellence, from the automotive marvels to the industrial giants. Join us to explore the wonders that keeps the world in motion. My name is Hassanein Alwan, and I'm your host.

Welcome to Wiki bearings. In today's episode, we're going to talk about selling online. We are focusing on the spare parts, the automotive parts, the four by four. With me, I have a very special guest. That I have known for some time, passionate digital marketer, a passionate consulting in that spectrum. You have built a, an online platform, which called the four by four.

com. Welcome Hamid to the show. Thank you so much, Hassanein. Pleasure to be on [00:01:00] this show. Thank you. It's really, I'm happy to have you here today. We're going to explore what, what you have done. And, uh, just to start soft start what we do, tell us a little bit about yourself. Uh, well, um, I come from a marketing background.

Um, uh, my major expertise was to actually work with companies, um, help them digitize, uh, create marketing strategies and been in this industry for almost 12 years. Um, It did allow me to explore multiple sides of almost every industry. And this way I created some kind of strategies for, to create my own ventures with some great partners in the industry and try to digitalize few industries.

One of them is the automotive industry. Uh, so working on a couple of projects, uh, one of them is live, which is the for export. com. Uh, which is the [00:02:00] marketplace for off roading equipments and, uh, products, spare parts, but on top of that, it has customization also. So you can also have car customization ordered online, actually.

So the, the four by four or four x four.com. Um, so what, what it is a very niche, I think it's more targeting the, the four by four, maybe the off-road. Um, what, what makes you come to this industry and how, how did you come with this, with this idea? So, um, off-roading industry is very niche in the UAE, but it's very.

Uh, rapidly growing, actually, um, used to be a very local, uh, Lee light, you know, so the local, they used to love it. They go for, for off roading desert hunting and many different things. Um, so one of the reason we wanted to digitize, digitize this whole industry is it's very tough right now for a person [00:03:00] who wants to actually go off roading is to know exactly, you know, what product do I need?

Which brand should I buy? How do I customize my vehicle? You know, they have these. Beautiful off roading four by four vehicle, but they don't know how to start. So we wanted to make it easier. And this is where being online is more to bring convenience, actually. So to make it convenient, we, We managed to get the American and the Australian OEMs for the spare parts in one platform, and as well as the Chinese manufactured products as well.

Uh, so this is, I think the first in the Middle East, uh, that we managed to brought these brands in one platform online. Uh, we at the same time have associated, we have our own workshop in Al Ain, but on top of that, we have associated with few other companies. Uh, workshops that will enable to install these products in your vehicle and customize it the way you want actually.

So the idea was to make it convenient and it has multiple phase. Then gradually we're going to go into making it more AI driven [00:04:00] and make it easier for you to customize your vehicle online. So that's the product that's still under development actually. If we look at this industry in general, it's a, it's a very traditional industry.

If we compare to the ticketing, the, the booking a ticket online or booking a hotel online, this have been already done maybe 20 years ago, this market is, is still a very, I would say analog, maybe we took, well, it's still not so. And, and what, and I think we are somehow behind. And this trend, the digitalizing trend, why, why do you think it's, what is the reason behind that?

So I think one of the main reason is that the people who are expert in this industry are not very tech savvy and they don't come from a marketing backgrounds and stuff. So they are very specific and they understand their product. They understand the things, but they lack on the other side. So many companies actually tried [00:05:00] many, uh, good experts actually tried to digitize actually tool.

Try to launch platforms also, but they were not able to convert it into a working business model, which would generate revenue. So more of an interest. Yes. So I think this is where we try to do is we try to. Actually, you know, fill that gap in the market. So I come from a background which understand marketing and the technology side.

And then I have my partners who comes from the industry experts. So we club them together and that's how we managed to actually cater. So. So, till now we've been successful. It's almost, uh, it's, it's more than a year now. And, and the platform is growing. We hit the break even already. So, I think that's good news.

That's a good news, you know, for a new platform. Sure. So, that's, that's how we look at it. It's like, I think that was the reason that many, In the past also failed is the marketing and the tech side is very important. And only marketing and tech side also doesn't work. [00:06:00] So if I can't, I can't just go and try, okay, fine.

I want to digitize the bearing industry on a digitize this industry. I need the industry expertise. And this is where we try to partner with the industry experts also. You know, like it says that there is a More than 2, 700 companies in the aftermarket or the spare part aftermarket, at least for the automotive aftermarket in the UAE.

And that is not a small number. And if we look at how many of them are online is, is less than 3%. Now you have taken that journey and you know, you have seen that. What do you think are the main challenges of digitalizing an existing business? Uh, from my understanding, there are three major challenges. One is, uh, the companies who are already in business, okay, they have this, um, they want to go online.

So first of all, instead of choosing a [00:07:00] solution that will get them go online, they always try to reinvent the wheel. I think everyone wants to be online, but how to be online, I think it's, it's challenging. And then the journey starts once you go online. So actual challenges is there when, okay, now you have the product, it's live, your catalog is live.

How to now? Make your buyer adopt this and come online to buy it. So this is, this is the, this is the challenge which starts once your product is ready, which is the online platform. But you said, you said that it is, it's, they're trying to reinvent the wheel. What, what, what do you mean by that? The customization of the platform.

So there are many solutions that are available technically that you can use, plug them together and, and be online quicker and focus on the main challenge, which is. To get buyers to make the business run, but they spend more time in creating a technology that takes them ages [00:08:00] and cost a lot. And then once that is ready, then they actually understand that now is actually the main challenge is how do I get the buyer now, you know, they need to buy, it's not the product that it's like you make a TV commercial.

Okay, but you don't broadcast it. You're watching it yourself. You spend a lot of money, but now actual cost and the actual challenge starts now to actually make it adaptable to your wires actually. So I think this is where the main challenge lies. It's not the creating the product or the platform, it's after you create it, you need to then have a strategy is how to make it adaptable in the market.

Sure. You know, like if we look at the, this type of a market and the way the customer journey is today and and both the customer, which is the buyer and the seller are more in touch, let's say maybe face-to-face or by phone on and so on. And I think as you said, like a lots of people thinks [00:09:00] the challenge is to build that on, be becoming online, but actually the real challenge is how to adopt to that.

And I think. There is so many things. So, so tell us like now that if anyone of our audience is interested in, in going online and now what are the things they should think about and how to make it user friendly maybe, and how to make it acceptable for this type of buyer that you already have now Okay.

So, um, if we are talking about every industry is, is different. So I won't be able to give one solution that actually fits all industries. So let's suppose I assume that the, the, the listeners that we have are actually from the spare part industry or automotive industry. Uh, so in this segment, especially in this part of the world, people trust communicating or engaging with a real human being.

So they want to talk to somebody, tell them their problem. And then [00:10:00] take an advice and then do it actually. It's more for that, the connection and the advisory, the trust, I think a lots of trust. The trust comes actually. So right now, even if you go online, you wouldn't have that trust from day one. You will have to build it.

They would rather talk to somebody. So I always suggest to companies that follow a hybrid model. Don't go fully online. Don't go fully, you know, traditional. You have to have a hybrid model that will allow you to have an online presence and gradually let your customer adopt to this. And, obviously, now you have AI, artificial intelligence, that will enable you to build modules for your And products that can give the same level of advice that a person or a salesperson setting with a bigger number of data that can feed it.

Actually, I think now it's, it's getting a bit scary. Now, if any salesman is listening to us, they're going to replace us with AI. Well, it's, it's going to happen. [00:11:00] Anyhow, are investing. We, uh, everybody's exploring options. So I think this is one of the reason why. Managing and organizing your data in a way and using this technology, because if you're going digital, you know, and then Still keeping the traditional model.

It's fine for a short term, but for a long term, you have to build products that will make it sustainable. And that will only sustain when you actually built a solution that will give the same level of knowledge and information as a person, as a salesperson that's giving right now, and unbiased at the same time, because salespeople, they are biased by commission, by brand endorsement, by some association with certain brands.

But here you get a very clear and by. So imagine you come to my platform and if you want, you have a car, let's suppose you have a four by four car and you want to go off roading, but you don't want to go like very high dunes and everything. You just want to go a very chilled, you know, on the sides, you don't have a camping and amateur [00:12:00] off roading.

So why should I offer you a product? That's heavy duty. That's not, that's, you're going to spend extra money on that. So I would rather the AI would be able to suggest you product. That's good enough for your usage. Less cost efficient. Because there are few products that gives you very smooth drive on the off road area.

Some products are heavy duty. It doesn't give you smooth drive. It's actually more for professionals, actually. So you, this suggestion should come from an unbiased system. For now, we have a team, we have experts that will advise you. But gradually, this should change into an online platform. And that's the way you can only be fully digitized.

I mean, I think, I think we are Still a bit far from this, uh, fully digitalized. I think of course there is AI have changed the way we look at customer service. We look at, uh, help support. And I think this is, this is rapidly changing. And I think in [00:13:00] the coming four or five years, we're going to see an exponential growth and even today, how the, in the past, the human voice was a difficult to, to, to imitate, but now with AI.

Even you, your, the way we speak, the way we interact, it becomes much more interesting. And, and I think this is driving, uh, the business in, in, uh, in that direction, for sure. Looking at our industry still is a very, very traditional, very analog maybe. And I think if we look at both the industrial parts or the automotive parts, it's a lot about.

The trust, the relation, how we do things. And, but we also see that the new generation, which is let's say born with iPads that do things online and they are more, I think there is the new generation are much more, have much more trust online. Compared maybe to the old [00:14:00] generation, and they are much more used to this, uh, buying online because they have, they've grown up with buying, buying online and you know, you, you get used to that.

And I think this is what the industry is, is, is going through. Uh, I've recently read that PNC intelligence, uh, is estimating the market to grow to 1. 5, 1. 4 billion. By 2030, this is like, which is estimated now to be like 500 million U. S. dollars in UAE. This is like triple the, yes, the automotive parts and, and.

If we look at the, it's expected this is 2030 is only six years from today, maybe five and a half year. Right. So what is in your opinion, driving that growth? And do you think this is a realistic number? Uh, well, from my understanding, uh, [00:15:00] As of we're working on another project, which is not specific to the four by four parts.

It is more general parts and it even have used parts in it, which is the scrap industry also in Sharjah. Um now if you combine the the used spare parts along with aftermarket and OEM You were talking about billions of dollars industry, actually. And that's alone in the UAE because UAE caters then all the surrounding countries and everything, actually.

So we are working on a project there, but I think it's the number of cars, the number of population in the country, and the number of business that people are coming, the traders, it's growing rapidly. So that definitely will have a direct impact on the, on the market size of the spare parts as well. And, and this is going to grow.

So this is going to grow. No, what, what they mean, it's the online aftermarket business is 500 million, and it's going to be 1. 4 billion, where this is not the whole market site. This is [00:16:00] the online, which is probably two to 3%, which is a very small list, which is a small percentage. Yeah. So, so if we look at, it's going to be three times, it's, it's a very big number.

You don't have any. Organic grow this way. This means that there is a very strong adoption. It must be of existing businesses and new businesses. And, and for me, this, this number is, is very big. Okay. Uh, I think that's, as, as we said, you know, it's going to happen in all industries, spare parts is one of the main, okay.

So let's suppose I need a spare part for my car. Imagine the challenges we go through right now. It's so difficult and people are used to, you know, being Amazon noon and many deep online aggregator platform. It just makes it easier to find any other products. So spare parts definitely is going to be. One of them, actually, because we are getting adopted to convenience, right?

So we want convenience in everything. It's not going to be, so this is going to grow, but I [00:17:00] assume it's going to be even more. Uh, because till now there are very small players in the market, in the online spectrum. You don't find a big unicorn that's leading this industry right now. So the market gap is huge.

And, and, and this is once new player comes in the market, this will grow rapidly. Uh, I think, yeah, for sure. So it's, it's very factual, actually, from my understanding. Okay. Now, now I think another, another aspect of, or another challenge that I have seen, and I talk to different people is the data. When we do a lots of face to face business, and we do this traditional business, you come to my store, let's say you want to buy a part that can be a bearing for, for a machine or a bearing for your wheel bearings.

This business is, is the amount of data, the way the data is managed, the way the data is stored is, is different than how it's expected to be in an online store. So, so how important [00:18:00] is this? I mean, I think a lot of, of the audience that are today, maybe either have started this journey or wants to start this journey or thinking about this journey.

I think they don't really, some of them do not realize how important the data is. So I, I, you have done this, this journey more than one time in my, in my knowledge. So, so how, how the structure of data and what they should think about when it comes to data. It's very important. I look at data from a perspective, like it's the knowledge bank that you have that will drive innovation.

You can't innovate without. having the knowledge of something. So it's the same way. If your data is not organized, you will not be able to train a new product that will be innovative and effective at the same time. You start from small. If your company or your organization or your industry is not organizing a data, you should start from, from very small.

Actually, that's the type of inventory that you sell, the type [00:19:00] of inventory that is in demand. The basic data you start from there and then get into your customers and then segmentation. And then this will give you clear vision about the future. And, and then when you have majority, I mean, many industries are already getting organized and understanding of, of this data to, to be organized, AI is not going to work if you don't have efficient data.

It's just data science. It's a clear, large volume of data. So whether it's AI, it's technology, it's innovation, you need the thing that will feed them is data. Yeah, for sure. I mean, with this is, this is what AI is driven by. And I think data is, but, but let's say you said that they should start collecting data.

And I think in general, they are collecting data. And some of them are, have been collecting some of, of the industry of collecting data for 10, 20 years. And now how to deal with this data, how to clean this data, how to interact [00:20:00] with this data. Any suggestion or any tips? I think the, the, the first thing you should get is, uh, uh, an AI consultant or a data scientist that should review your current organization, data structuring process, and then how you organize it actually, and there you actually create an AI strategy for your company, or at least a basic that your data is ready to be adopted in the future.

If you plan to actually get into this, uh, innovation, uh, or, or bring A new product that will actually disrupt the industry, but I think just get an AI consultant or a data scientist that can just review it actually and give you a basic structure to organize it. That's it. It's it's the first starting point if you're a very small company or a small organization, even you need it actually because it's all a matter of right structure and you can actually change the whole industry.

Uh, Big market opportunities are still available. Me and you alone cannot actually cater to the market. You need [00:21:00] other players. You need big players actually to, to create products that will change or disrupt many industries. It's going to happen anyhow. Somebody will do it. You know, we, we, we're trying to be one of them actually.

So data is very important, but get a data scientist or AI consultant just to actually review it for the first, as a first step. So, disregard if it's a big company, an old company, or a startup, you think they should have the data taking care to be able to move online? 100%. Yeah, that's very important. Okay, let's say some, I think again, lots of our audience are either in this process or thinking about starting a business online or moving part of their existing business, as you said, hybrid into an online business.

Now, some of them does not know where to start. And so yes, I have a traditional business. It's a successful business. Maybe it's smaller or some of [00:22:00] them, you know, we have big player in UAE and all the surrounding. I mean, we have all this 2, 700 companies. Some of them are very small, one or two people. And some of them are two, three, four, 500 people.

So they are not, you know, All of them are small, but I think the challenge is, is the same wherever you start, you want to start planning this. So for the planning, if we, if, if I've not done done before, what do you suggest, how do I plan this forward? Uh, I think very simple from the way how I look at it or how I actually, my method is, is, is I always tell my clients or on my partners we're working with is, is The objective is to make it convenient.

Otherwise, why are you going online if you can't make it convenient? So if, if, if Hasnain is my current client, actually, the way he communicates with me, WhatsApp made it convenient. So, okay, what's the next step? How do I make it more convenient for Hasnain to actually. [00:23:00] Do business with me. So I think convenience is the key where we find a way, okay, in my current business model, how do I make it convenient for my customer that he does very less and he gets maximum, you know, in response.

And then you find tools again, don't go to reinvent the wheel. Don't always, there are, there are plenty of tools available. The, the world. Uh, technology industry is huge. There are many, plenty of, of, of these tools that are available. You just need to find the right tool, plug them together and, and give the solution and gradually go on that road.

Actually, you will automatically be in few years. You will have a product, your industry will be in a better position. You will be in a better position to provide a better service for your customers. Convenience is the key that will drive them to stay with you. Um, I'm dealing, let's suppose I buy, buy, bearing, bearing from you, actually.

Currently, if I have to talk to three people to place an order, you make it [00:24:00] convenient that I talk to one person. I'll be happy. You make it, I don't need to talk to anybody, and I make it automated to what my requirement is. That's even better. That's all digitization. Having it online is also the same thing.

You're just making it more convenient for people, actually. I think, I think convenient is, is the, is the name of the game of any digital business. Yes. It's not for only spare part, and I think. We have seen in the the companies that are able to break through and make it more convenient suddenly they are way way stronger or they can break through in in different ways and and and we have seen that in Even in simple delivery of food or the one that gets delivered faster Sometimes we choose by okay.

This one is delivering 20 minutes faster or 10 minutes faster So there is there is this also The, the, the competition in convenience itself, but, uh, I was, uh, my question was a bit more, let's say I'm, I'm a business owner and I want to [00:25:00] start looking online. What are the first step I should do? Like, what should I start hiring somebody to do it?

Should I, I mean, we're some, some direction. So I, I, after they have listened to me and then they said, okay, now I know what to do. At least taking the first few steps into this. Again, uh, very simple. If you have in house team, okay. Sometime in house team are very good, but they are always within the box. So you need, you know, you need somebody who's out of the box.

So get an external consultant who are good at doing these things. You know, who can digitize things or who can give you ideas and concepts, get discussion, hire him as a consultant or, or something that can actually advise you, they will even make a roadmap for you based on that. If you have the enough fund, if your company is large enough, you have an in house team and the external team work together.

If your company is small, work with external and do it more on ad hoc basis, actually. So as the requirement grows, you work on it actually. [00:26:00] But experts are important. You can have an idea, but how to execute an idea, you need an expert and the expert will then guide you. If you think one expert is not doing a job, change, bring another one.

But sometime And what companies does, they expect the in house team to come up with concepts and everything and do everything. But that's where limitation happens. There are companies who are working with minimum 10 industries. They would, they have access to a different type of, of ideas and concept than a, than a company or an IT team or a marketing team that works only in your industry.

So having these external team can actually guide you and advise you on ideas that sometime comes from different industries, but it works in your industry as well, actually. So I think this is where the starting point would be, is get somebody expert who can guide you. Once you have a roadmap with them, then implement it.

Simple. You mentioned something that if you're small and you don't have the in house, so maybe you can, you can use an external. Now it looks, [00:27:00] it looks to be the other way around. Like it looks that the bigger ones are trying to use an in house team and the smaller ones are the one that is outsourcing.

And. And I think sometimes the breakthrough happens because if you admit that you are not the expert and you hire an expert, sometimes things move much faster. And, and, and I think if we look at other industries, we learn a lot from, we can learn. I mean, if you look at the delivery challenge that food industries do, I mean, restaurant, I mean that complexity, but instead of trying for us or for anyone to compete with that, It's going to be very difficult, but if you use that, yes, it is, then, then it is becomes part of the convenience.

And I think when it's come to the digital journey, I think there is a lot of similarities, a lot of knowledge we can learn from other platforms, from other industries [00:28:00] that have, I look at, at, for example, the pricing model of hotels and how, how advanced is that compared to any other business? I look at the restaurant delivery and food delivery.

This is very, very, um, like it's small. It's so it's many, many deliveries in one day in one time. So it's very complex. There is something to learn there. And I think if we look at different industry, we can learn and we can see that similar to, okay, so maybe I don't need to deliver within 10 minutes to for my bearings at least, but at least there's something to learn there.

The if it's pricing, how do I learn on the pricing? It's We think, I think everyone thinks that his industry is the most complicated, the most complex. Like, we have something around 30, 000 SQs and I was speaking to, to, um, one time to one of the fashion retailers, they said in one brand, in one [00:29:00] season, we could have 30, 000 SQs.

Yeah. So it's like, and that is one season. And then after another season, they would have to change. And in the same SQs, there are different colors, different sizes, different models, shorts, you know, and all of these. So I think. We, we somehow are all thinking that my industry is the most complex, my industry is, it's different than others.

But I think if we are open minded enough and try to say our industry is, is like any other industry. The customer journey nowadays is, is becoming also very similar today. I think what, what have changed a lot with the internet and the era of today before we would go to a store discussing and then make a decision of buying something.

You know. But I think we never do this. Now we are going to the store already know what we are planning to buy. And that is done through the research. We check online, we compare, we see a YouTube [00:30:00] video, and we have done. And this is, I've changed, and this is changing in every industry. And I think many of our customers is doing the same.

They know what they want, could be a brand or a certain specification. Even if he's not an expert, they have done his, his homework. And this is, this is, this is, It's changing the whole way of, of the customer journey. Uh, 20 years ago, if I want to buy a mobile on any, I would go, and I don't know, I, maybe I have a budget and then I go and I'll see the three, four different models, and then I say, okay, this one is having this specification.

It's can be a TV or whatever. But now I think most of the time we know what we want and we have done that research online. And this is why. It's it's the journey is, is, is, is very different. And, and that is also driving the expectation of customer. You need to be available online. And I, I have, I've said that to even very traditional [00:31:00] business, sometimes you need to be online for your customer to see and search your product and find them.

And maybe you're going to give you a call and buy them. Exactly. That's fine. Simple. Or send you a WhatsApp. Yeah. That's, that's no problem. But not, uh, not being visible online can maybe take you out of this comparison of that. So I, I think, uh, there is this, this change and what, what the leaders or unicorns have changed in the way we buy.

It could be Amazon or Noon or any other. It's our expectation is also different why I can buy a sandwich online and I cannot buy a spare part online or a bearing online. And, and, and if we look at as well in the U S and Europe now, a lot of business spare part, it's happening online. Big, big companies are, are there is this, what we call them, the unicorn or what I call them, the Amazon spare part in Europe, and they are [00:32:00] doing substantial business.

Indeed. I think we have the opportunity in this region to be one of them or to be, to be part of this, this, this game. And, and, and this is why I thought this, this podcast would be interesting for a lots of our, because I think all of us, all the, the listener of, of our, our, uh, uh, podcast are somewhere in their journey.

Either they are already have a store and then we, we, we have some, something for them as well. Maybe they have a successful. Or not yet successful or in this, or they want to start Yes. Or they, they're planning to start. I, I think the general willingness is there. Is there, yes. The willingness is there.

Nobody wants to be left behind, just how and when and, and I think this is where, where the delay is, is is happening. So looking at somebody that have spent some time building their website and they think, okay, now I can go live. I'm done. I think [00:33:00] it's, it's really the, the start of the. Of the, of the game.

And I think once we are live, the challenges are very different. Now, from your experience and your expertise, what are the challenges after we go live? Uh, two major, uh, thing that you need to keep in mind is once you build the platform is when you start the journey. So you need two things, which is very important.

One, continuous development. There is no end to building a platform. You start building a platform. You never say I'm done. I'm complete. You go live on different stages. You go live with different modules with different features, but you keep on building it, improving it. Um, it's a continuous work, actually, uh, any social media platform, any digital platform.

Uh, you name it, there is still continuous development happening. So that's one you never stop. So it's a continuous involvement, a continuous. innovation and continuous building based on feedback, based on data, based on people interaction on your platform. [00:34:00] Um, there is no one way that is good for everybody.

So you need to find your way. Second marketing, which is, which is another very important thing actually. And, and marketing then depends what industry you are in. If you are in a B2B or a B2C, if you're a B2B, It's completely different way of, of selling or, or making it acceptable by the customer, actually.

And if it's a B2C, then it's different. It's not just social media, you know, and, and associating with influencers or, or just running few ads on, on digital marketing platform. These are just few of the, you know, tactics that you use, but in total, you have to have a very clear marketing plan. You should know in one to two years, uh, what you're going to do in your marketing spectrum, how you're going to acquire the customer, how you're going to retain them, how are you going to make them, you know, upsell.

Uh, this is all part of your strategy that you should do from day one, that you go into market. You can't just go live, spend a lot of money on your platform [00:35:00] and be ready. And then. Now I'm done. This is where it starts actually. Uh, it's, it's, it's the same way like you open a store. So let's suppose you, uh, you open a store in a market, it will sell.

For example, you open a store in Amazon. It will sell because they're already buyer there. But let's suppose I tell you open a store in the middle of a desert. That's what happens when you build your platform. Who's going to come to the middle of a desert? There is no walk in customer. There is no people who are waiting for you.

So over there you have to find a way to bring people to that place where you are located. So that's the same online platform. Nobody knows your address. Nobody knows why they should come. Okay, they know. Okay, fine. You have a website. Why should I come? Why should I buy, you know? So you have to make it work.

It's continuous development. And marketing two very important thing actually. So if we just took like so this continuous work and in the marketing aspect now Just so we we go a little bit Um, do we do it in house [00:36:00] or do we do do we outsource? And when do we do it in house and when do we outsource? Now both i'm talking about the marketing perspective Because there is a lot I don't think there is right and wrong But I mean your again you from your perspective Because some companies, um, are small, they wouldn't have, you know, enough in house, but you, you have done, you have done that journey, you know how much you need and what, what would be best is outsourcing the development.

Or the continuous innovation and once comes to the marketing, what, when, and what do we suggest? Okay, the continuous innovation, when it comes to the IT side of it or the technology side of it, you, if your product is good enough, you definitely have to have either a retainer based contract with the IT companies or have in house resources actually, because That's something which you don't know.

It comes based on data, feedback, customer's feedback, their behavior on your platform. [00:37:00] You're, you're shaping, you're shaping, you're just improving. You need continuous improvement there. You're going to try so that you don't outsource that whole model. You can do it, but more on a retainer basis, rather than on a project basis.

Marketing on the other side is different. Actually, when you know what you're going to do, It's good to have in house team because they can just implement. When you want to try what you're going to do, you can't depend on somebody who's in house and has the same mindset of you and have influence of the leadership on them.

They can't actually go out of the way because the leadership in most of the companies doesn't give that traditional business. I think the mindset is as well. Our part of the world, I think it's most of the businesses is that the leadership has such a strong influence. That the, the team in house doesn't cross that, you know, mindset.

So they have to stay within the mindset. Here, when somebody comes from outside and they, they don't get influenced by the leadership, they can actually [00:38:00] create some new. At least they are free to speak. Free to speak, has nothing to lose. Yes. So over there, you always need external consultancy to give new ideas, new concept, and stay ahead of your game, actually.

That's that's my solution. Great. And I think it makes make complete sense. I think sometimes if we if we have a team that is doing the marketing in house, they're used to do a traditional marketing in a traditional way and catering customer coming to the store face to face. And this is another challenge and another skill which is needed.

But I think once we try to move online, it's a different set off of skills and sometimes having a fresh perspective. If it's confirmed what we are doing existing, it's fine. It, if it's, if maybe a new idea or a new platform, and I think it looks to me, the, the cost in, in the, uh, acquiring customers on [00:39:00] that new platform is, is, is something to consider.

And that is where the marketing investment or expense goes. Yes. Agree. Not agree. A hundred percent. I agree with you because I think. There is no industry right now or no digital platform that can say, Oh, I'm so innovative that I don't have to spend too much to acquire a customer. I, as I said, the earlier example, very simple.

You are opening a store in the middle of a Sahara desert actually. Now you need to make Customer come to you. So you need to convince me with your knowledge, with your products, with your, uh, convenience, with your, uh, you know, expertise, yes. Trust delivery. Yes. Then I'm going to click on the buy now button and then put my money in your pocket.

Otherwise I'm not going to come to your store. Actually. If, if we, if we look at, um, this, this journey from. From we go live until the day we break even how, how, [00:40:00] how is the, because I think this is the, the darker side of, of, of any business. And I think this is the scary point of anyone. And once you, you meet your finance team and say, you know, we're going to go, we want to do this.

And then this is the time. So I have, I have a couple of questions and that's how do we deal with that? And how long is that time? Because once you're aware of breakeven, nobody, nobody, yeah. I mean, yeah. Do whatever you want to do. Yeah, that's fine. You know, once you're a break even you, the, the weight on the shoulders is different from the day you go live.

Because even before that, I think even if take, And I think this is something, a hidden reason why the time of developing a platform becomes very long, because as long as we did not go live, there is no expectation of revenue generation. Once we go [00:41:00] live until we break even, this is the. Challenging. The challenge.

Practically. That's the reason I think many big companies doesn't disrupt in the online spectrum because they are too much calculated, you know, they're very, very, they want to make money before they even spend money, you know, they want to make sure there is a revenue coming from it. Look, innovation. I would love that as well.

To make money before I spend my money. At least they are sure. Okay, fine. In six months, I'm going to make money when I spend or I build the platform. It's not that easy. Again, every industry is different. Let's suppose if it's a B2B platform, a B2B platform as compared to a B2C platform hits break even faster.

Really? Yes. Uh, this is based on experience. I'm saying is, is a B2B platform. The cost of acquiring customer is cheaper as compared to a B2C platform, because you might have 100 B2B customers that can give you enough [00:42:00] business to reach break even, but you need 50, 000 B2C customer to make you break even actually, in many industries.

In terms of number of customers. Number of customers. And in B2B, you know your segment, you know who you want to approach, you know how to convince him, you know what tools you need, actually. You're just making it convenient and bringing them, you know, Giving them a better solution than your competitor and that's it.

He's yours. They don't have any Uh biasness because of a brand association like a b2c, you know Their emotional connection with a brand businesses their financial connection with a brand actually a lot. Yes. Yeah They say I mean it's it I think b2c is is as it's a business. There is a lot of rationalization to it Compared to a b2c which is more of emotional I'm saying, of course, there is rationalization, but I think the weight on rationalism in the B2B is a bit higher, but I think B2C is different.

It could be a color can [00:43:00] change your mind to say, no, no, I don't want this color. And you will buy it somewhere else. A brand strategy could actually make you away from a certain brand. Uh, that's happens in B2C, but B2B is pure numbers, rational. And, and this is the reason the break even in a B2B segment you, you hit earlier.

Uh, again, it's not a fact that applies to all industries. It's very, you have to look at your number. But I think from my understanding, if you are really planning to just Increase your sale and go online, find an existing aggregator, work with them because they will give you sale. Go on Amazon, go other of you to be platform.

You don't need to build your own thing. Don't spend too much because you're not actually of that mindset who want to disrupt the industry or come up with something else. So don't spend money where actually you have a chances of success and a chances of failure. If you want to actually disrupt, then the chances of Success and failure is 50 50.

So you, you have to actually be acceptable. If it doesn't work out, you could [00:44:00] probably have to redo the whole thing. You might have to redo the platform. You might have to, you know, create a new strategy, but be consistent because you have an aim to be, to achieve actually. Um, so I think this is, this is what it is.

It's not a very clear, uh, thing. Okay, fine. It's not like that. You might fail. There is a high chances you will fail. I'll tell you the failure chances is more actually. Uh, but still, if you have the vision, you have the hunger to disrupt the industry, you wouldn't spend, you wouldn't actually hurt your pocket or your heart wouldn't ache when you're spending that money, because you know, okay, in three years, I didn't reach, I'll spend five years and make it reach actually, because then the ambition is different.

That's driving you. If the ambition is to make money. I would say, look for aggregator, let somebody else do the job and you just make money, focus on that. Don't be the disruptor of the industry. Yeah, use the existing platforms. And this is another way of doing business. There's many people can do that.

There's a lot of people. And I think in the B2C as well, this is, this [00:45:00] is becomes also a trend. Yes. If your product is a B2C product to acquire that customer, it's, it's also a cost and time. And if you use an existing. Uh, aggregator or a platform, they have this B2C customer, and then you can just adapt to this and could be the start of that journey that you are working on.

Yes. There are many platform where the platform doesn't make money, but the sellers on the platform are making huge money because you understand, because marketplace works like that. Marketplace doesn't make money for a very long time. You know, it's, it's, you don't hit the e commerce can make money, but marketplace doesn't.

So. So what's your hunger? Why do you want to do it? Actually, is it for the sake of making money? Then there are many other solutions available where you can increase your sale by being online, uh, and not spend too much also. And then chances of failure is very less actually. So you can hit your break even easily.

So there is few [00:46:00] terms. So I want to just make it clear for our audience. Now we said B2B a few times and B2C. So I want you to define this term. And then we said marketplace and e commerce and. You know, just let us define these terms. So just to make it, if somebody is not familiar with this, uh, jargons, at least they are aware, so B2B is very simple.

It's business to business. So when a business sells anything to another business, it's a B2B transaction. And B2C is a business to consumer, the end user who buys your product actually. So Amazon is mostly B2C, Noon is mostly B2B, B2C, but then you have online platform that sells to businesses only like TradeLink actually, it's another platform they're trying, which is.

Which is a B2B platform. They sell in bulk. They sell directly to businesses. Also, uh, Amazon has a B2B section also, which is Amazon business. They sell to businesses as well. Uh, so that's B2B and that's B2C. Now marketplace and e commerce. E commerce. This is very important. Uh, one of the [00:47:00] major, um, uh, thing what's happening in the market is many businesses that have product that are manufacturers themselves.

Our brand owners themselves, when they go online and sell something online, it's an e commerce platform. So it's online platform. They're just making it e commerce to sell it. But there are some, for example, a company comes, they launch a platform. They don't own for now something, or even if it's one of their product is them having a certain product.

But they make it a market, actually, which is like a mall where multiple other brands can also sell their product on this platform. So that becomes a marketplace, actually. So a marketplace, let's suppose if it's a bearing industry or a spare parts marketplace. So you will find different brands selling their product there, everyone having their own individual stores, like on Amazon, Amazon is a marketplace.

Noon is a marketplace actually, but there are a few companies who are brands themselves and they just make [00:48:00] their product, their catalog available online to sell, that's an e commerce platform. So, so just to, to simplify, so if, if I'm selling my products on my platform or my online store, this is a e commerce.

If it's a platform where different suppliers put their products to sell to different customer can be to be B2b and can be also b2c. Yeah, it's called a market a marketplace. That's simple. Great looking at the 4x4. com What is the biggest now looking at the experience you have you already reached a breakeven?

Congratulations Now, what was your your biggest challenge? I think the biggest challenge from day one and till today is Uh To make it acceptable by customers, uh, Luckily, the OPEX of the company or 4x4 is very small, so we could hit break even quickly. But the potential of the industry is so huge that I still feel [00:49:00] we are not even catering 0.

1%. Like it's, it's huge. So I think the challenge from day one was to make it acceptable by maximum number of, of customers to place order online and trust our service of, of picking up their vehicle and, and installing the products and then delivering back to them actually. Uh, so I think that's been the challenge, which is, we discussed earlier also the cost of making it acceptable and it's a B2C business.

So that's more challenging. Yes, that's more challenging. So we're working on that, and at the same time we are getting data and feedback, what people are saying. Uh, what's stopping the customers from not fully using the platform all the time or new customers It's to make it more convenient for them And this is why I said we have modules that are under development which will make it easier for them to come Put their requirement and get a suggestion of what products they need, how, you know, they, where should they install it and the cost of it and the [00:50:00] warranty and which brands we suggest everything it will, they'll get the instruction there on top of that, because then you have in the 4x4 another segment, which is where you can customize your car the way you want.

So you don't want somebody to tell me you have your own idea. Like I want these tires. I want this, uh, you know, bumper. I want these suspension and shocks. So we want to make another module, which is in the development, which is where you can choose your brand of car and customize it on your own. Build your own pizza.

Exactly. And then place the order. We'll come pick it up and install it for you because that's your thing. So I think making it convenient, again, this is the challenge at the same time, catering and making it adoptable for what we have currently. Right. That's the challenge. So this is what we are currently working with and we are trying to improve it actually.

I think, I think what you said is, I think is not only unique for you. I think for any new business model, especially on the new online idea is acquiring [00:51:00] customer or to acquire enough customer to, to, to explore. And then out of that funnel, take them to trust the platform and really do the business. There would be some obstacle somewhere.

Sometimes it could be. The, the, the, the, let's say, uh, the delivery or the location or the, you know, and the, the more you solve, the more you understand the journey. And we say, where did the disruption happening or where you're, you need to evolve. And as you said, like, and I think it's different for an expert that wants to do, I mean, you're giving me suggestion, but I know what I want.

Some customer will be like this, but the other customer, I have no idea. Tell me what should I do? And I think this is different when we, we interact with a store. And this is how I, and I, I think if we bring that convenience, which is in a store to an online, this, this is can break through. Indeed. Yes. And you [00:52:00] know, it's, it's, it's, it's still a, a, a challenge.

And I think we expect different things from, from an online store compared to, and I think we, this adaptation, but, but I think we are moving that direction. And, and. And in general, the trusting paying online becomes much more normal, which is 10 years ago. I pay online would be, you know, why would, how do I put my credit card online?

I don't trust this platform. I think there is a lots of problems and this is probably thanks to COVID that we started to trust a lots of online. And today we do, if we compare to. Pre COVID and after COVID, I think there was a huge adaptation of the digital platform and the trust of digital and buying online.

A lots of people moved to buy online because they, this was the only way. And, and I think thanks to COVID digitalization was, was, was pushed, was pushed in, in, in a different, uh, in a different way. [00:53:00] Um, now looking at your, you have a niche custom. This is not a general, uh, Public product. It's more of a niche custom.

How do you find these custom? How do you engage with them? Is it an event? I mean, this, this must be a community out there that are interested. How, how do you engage with these? It's different when it comes to, uh, uh, Emirates. So in Abu Dhabi and Al Ain, it's different. It's majority, all the locals that comes, um, there are some really, uh, influential people.

Influencers online that have associated with us. And we actually acquired an existing workshop also. So that gave us a good exposure to, uh, the market and we had some data. So we knew who our customer are. We serve there not only B2C, we serve, uh, some B2B companies also. On top of that, in Dubai, it's different.

In Dubai, there are, uh, you know, off [00:54:00] roading groups. There are off roading communities. There are lots of expats that does it for fun, actually. And, and over there, we associate with them, actually, and we, uh, you know, promote our, our platform there. Uh, but right now, our Dhabi and Al Ain. So, we, we're still, actually, very Uh, we're keeping it low end.

We're not promoting it too much because we are trying to make the product better. Uh, the current volume and the response we're getting is, is, is already making us packed actually. So the market is in Asia, but at the same time, the demand is bigger actually. Very nice. Right now, looking at your platform.

And imagining five years from today, what do you expect to happen? Uh, well, I expect that the two important modules to be also implemented, um, and that will enable us to go globally. Uh, because this lacks not only in the Middle East, we don't have any such platform in the whole world. [00:55:00] where it's, it's actual business, where we have a big, uh, you know, interest getting into the U.

S. market. It's a big off roading community there, uh, Australian market, uh, and then gradually getting into the other GCC countries as well, actually. Uh, but most of our suppliers and brands that we deal with are from U. S. and Australia. Uh, so we want to actually cater that market and take the technology there.

Now, I think, I think we covered most of the, of the aspects of, uh, you know, like from the pre, from the planning, from now, there are a few trends that we see that is happening. You mentioned AI. How do you think AI would play a role in this? Uh, digital journey in the coming five years. I think it's going to make it more easier for people to adopt, um, you know, technology, uh, very competitive, um, People who are [00:56:00] underestimating it would, uh, you know, feel, uh, left behind if they are a technology or if their current platform doesn't adopt this, uh, companies who are currently, because AI is not limited to just only digital, it can be in your production facility.

It could be your, you know, cyber security. It could be your, uh, digitalization of the logistics, logistics, many thing. So it's, it's like internet. You can use it. It's like electricity. You can use it to empower any machine. So I think, uh, it's going to have a huge impact on the digitization of industries as well.

Uh, on the way people experience things, it will make it easier actually. When you say make it easier for, from a, from a consumer perspective, from the end, from a buyer or from a seller perspective? Uh, well, both actually. Um, we'll, we'll make the job easier. Uh, to, to sell something quite easy. Uh, let's suppose we have one major AI tool that everybody use nowadays is chat GPT.

Uh, [00:57:00] what it is, yeah, what it does is like, make it easier for you to, to draft emails, to, uh, you know, do some research too. So it's a tool that now everybody uses it and, and they made the job easier, faster, actually. Um, now implement that on any technology, whether it's a website to suggest you. What product you need, how you need, you know, where, what kind of right products you should buy, what's the right price for that product as a seller.

It gives me the data who is selling on what price, you know, what should, what should be my product? How do I customize it to be better than my competitor? So it actually benefits all so in the end, it's electricity You know, it's gonna light you and it's gonna light me at the same time So depends how you use it is is very important and this is why I said it's very important At this stage also to actually engage with some experts get your organization, you know You Be checked by them and see the possibilities and not one time this should be a regular practice in few [00:58:00] months or years.

You should continuously do it every six months. What do I check up? Sort of? Yeah, why not? It's like a health check of your company. A. I health check it, you know, like it. It is. It is changing the way I think. We, we, we cannot ignore the impact AI will have. And I think especially when we are digitally with the availability of data, and this is, this is, I think it's going to drive the business sometime.

Uh, an, an offline business, it can be a bit, you have a different challenge to, to adapt AI because how to, to get the data and so on. But I think with an online business, AI going to change the way things forward. And I think we are in the, in the baby steps of AI and I think we have, we have a long way to see.

We have a long way to go. Yes. Hamid. I mean, it's, it's, it's really a pleasure to, to have you here. I enjoyed our discussion. I mean, I would love to. [00:59:00] To discuss, but for this episode for this time, thank you very much for coming. Thank you so much for inviting me. It was a pleasure talking to you. And very insightful podcast.

Thank you so much. Thank you for coming. And for our audience, thank you very much for today. If you have any comments or suggestions, reach us at podcast at mcb. ai. Thank you. And until next time, and that drops another episode of wiki bearings, don't forget to subscribe for more insights into the fascinating realm of the engineering innovation until next time, keep spinning towards greatness.