B2B SALES EXCELLENCE: RAMEZ HELOU'S PROVEN STRATEGIES

In this episode of the Wiki Bearings Podcast, we dive deep into the evolving world of B2B sales. Join our host, Hassanein Alwan, as he sits down with expert Ramez Helou, CEO and Founder of The Academy for Sales Excellence.

Discover actionable insights on navigating the complexities of modern sales, from engaging multiple decision-makers to the impact of digital transformation in the B2B space. Learn how to build trust, communicate value effectively, and handle the unique challenges of selling technical and industrial products. Whether you’re a sales professional, a business leader, or someone looking to enhance your selling strategy, this episode is packed with real-world examples and expert advice to keep you ahead in competitive markets.

Tune in now and transform your approach to sales!

For more info, Please visit our website: https://mcb.ae/

Follow us on social media:
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mineral-circles-bearings-fzco
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mineralcircles/
-Twitter: https://twitter.com/MineralCircles
-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MineralCircles/

#bearings #bearingmanufacturer #bearingsupplier #wikibearings

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Wiki bearings, where we dive into the worlds of engineering excellence, from the automotive marvels to the industrial giants. Join us to explore the wonders that keeps the world in motion. My name is Hassanein Alwan, and I'm your host.

Welcome to another episode of Wiki bearings. In today's episode, we're going to talk about sales and specifically B2B sales. With me, I have a very special guest, a friend of mine that have been doing this for a very long time. He's a sales excellence expert. He have been in the industry for a long time.

He's a professor in Holtz University. He have been teaching generation in terms of sales and sales training. Welcome, Ramez Helou. Thank you, Hassanein, for having me on the, uh, on [00:01:00] the podcast. So, um, When I think about sales, somehow you come to, to my mind, and, and, uh, when I look at, um, the, the audience or the, the, the people that always listen to us, at the end of the day, we, we somehow at a certain level, we are doing sales.

Of course we, we, we try to add value. Of course we are selling maybe technical products, power transmission, automotive, industrial, but at the end of the day, we are somehow. in the sales or in the management, we are involved in some kind of sales. So I, I wanted to, so when I thought about, okay, let's, let's talk about sales.

And I think it's, it's a topic that involves all our audience, all our customers. And, uh, so I thought, let's, let's have you on the, on, on our podcast and thank you for coming. So again, it's a, it's a pleasure and. You know the [00:02:00] profession of selling a lot of time you don't find it. It finds you so 35 years ago.

I started selling knives door to door Okay, back in the US. I didn't know that. Okay, and Little did I know that it was that job That I would actually, uh, the challenges I faced at the time by overcoming them, not only was I helping myself, but then I became the guidance that my manager would use. Say, hey, if Ramos can sell these knives, anyone can, you know, so, um, so yeah, there's a, it's, it's been quite a journey and looking forward to sharing some of the insights.

Great. Um. When we, when we look at sales, I think any good salesman have gone through it by himself. I mean, you can't teach really sales without having done some sales. And I think you are the perfect example of doing it yourself over different organizations and now. [00:03:00] So coming to the topic of today, the B2B sales.

So let's start with some kind of a definition. What is B2B sales? Business to business selling. Right. So B2B stands for business to business and the biggest difference in B2B sales compared to a B2C sales is that in a B2B environment, you have multiple decision makers. You're not selling, when I used to sell knives, I used to sell to a household.

So usually it's the wife that decides, the husband that pays, you know, and typical, typical, right. Um, and The in the b2b environment today, we know That there are an average And that number has been growing over the last seven or so years. There's an average of five six plus some research shows there are 6.

2 Decision makers involved in a product to be sold in a b2b environment because [00:04:00] it's not just purchasing It's purchasing and technical purchasing technical and finance purchasing technical finance supply chain purchasing, you know, so it just keeps growing and today the sales representatives used to deal with one or two decision makers in the past and they were the ones that would Contact them to place the order Uh, yet today we're realizing that it's not just who's contacting you to place the order, but who are those people behind that decision to actually make that final go ahead that releasing these funds and the people involved in that decision making process.

So that is the biggest difference is yes, selling is selling yet it gets to be more complex to know how to influence and how to persuade people. With their own interest in mind as opposed to your own interest in mind. True. I think when we look at [00:05:00] over the, at least even in the past 10 years, the number of involved, like the number of people involved into the sales have been much more complex and have the different people have a different Things in mind the technical person is is more caring about the technicality of the product The performance of the product the maintenance guy wants to put a product that lasts forever right minimize his maintenance overhead headaches, uh having users call him in the middle of the night to say My machine is down, this is happening.

So absolutely you have to be able to speak the language. If you look, if you look to the purchaser, he wants the cheapest price. Correct. So you have all of these dynamics and now this is the complexity of B2B sales. Correct. But I think also we cannot ignore in the past few years, digital sales has become, become more important and evolving.

There is a recent [00:06:00] study that I read that 80 percent off sales is happening online. Now, I don't know how accurate is this. I don't know if I believe that in our industry is a little bit different, but But what is your take on digital sales? So digital sales, so this, this percentage is saying that, um, a big majority of the decision making, the research, because of the rise of the internet, and today because of the rise of some of the advanced technologies, a lot of the decision Makers have access to a lot of information available online.

So in the, you know, just go back 20 years ago when the internet was not as, uh, prevalent as it is today. Having a sales professional show up to an organization and educate that organization based on their own insight, research, and, uh, and knowledge was quite useful. Uh, today, buying organizations do a lot of that research themselves and they do [00:07:00] it online.

online, right? Do they buy online? They, well, in some cases, yes, if the product has what we call, um, uh, you know, little or so differentiation, right? However, where today's maybe golden nuggets exist is, is, is a salesperson going to be relevant in the future? And the answer is no, if what they're selling is a Me too product, a me too service.

If this is what you're selling, then someone's not gonna need the seller anymore because they can go on Amazon, you can go on Alibaba, you can buy all these things. But in B2B sales, there is still an element of education. You need to find a way to educate your customers. You have to find a way to tailor that approach to, um, uh, to that specific, uh, decision maker and at the end engage with them in a value added manner.

That is the, the only reason [00:08:00] why any decision maker would want to give you time. People don't want to give you their time. Time is the most precious resource and are you there to waste their time or are you there to really add value, right? So that is that one distinction. I think if we look at generally B2B sale, of course we can sell online, but I think some commodity products or the product that doesn't have, there is not much to add value.

But when it comes to technicality, products, specification, customization of product, um, and I think depending on how you add value at the end of the day, if you can't add value, nobody want to meet you. So what is value? I mean, just thinking a bit about the industry of, um, uh, of parts of bearings working, whether it's you're working with, uh, with, uh, Manufacturers, they have their own equipment internally or a construction site.

So today as a seller, I need to understand not just what my bearing is doing. Yes. I need to understand the implication of [00:09:00] that machine being faulty. What happens when that machine is down? How, what are the consequences? How, how does that impact the buying organization? And today people don't buy, uh, don't buy a product, but they buy safety.

They buy security, they buy uptime, uptime. Right. Smooth running, productivity. Uh, at the, at the end of the day, I think we have, we moved many, many years ago from buying and selling product to, to buying and selling values that is connected to this product or to that company. And I, and I think if we think, try to keep selling a product.

I think AI can replace us even, even, even more efficient. Then this is the beginning of the end, right? So companies today that just sell products are not bringing that insight. I'm not bringing that value addition. So, I mean, a nice example I talk about is, you know, go [00:10:00] back 40 years ago, uh, or so, nobody knew what a microwave was.

No. Right. Yet someone sold that idea. And today you go to almost any household. And there is a microwave. Now, whether they use it that frequently or not is a different story. Yeah, sure. But it became part of the appliances inside of the kitchen. True. Right? And I, and I, and I think we, we, we are moving. Now, anything that gets product and simple product.

We are, we are getting the digital world evolving into this and to be easier to sell it both for the, for a company and for a customer. I think this is the added value where you can add value on what convenient. I usually try to say to my sales guy, it should be stupid, easy to sell. to buy. The customer should think about, if I want to buy a product, if I want something, it should be easy to do.

And that easy, the convenience, I think, is making a big difference between one organization or [00:11:00] not. Could be, it doesn't matter if you're, if you're a restaurant or you are a technical engineer, is it easy to work with you? Are you giving me the value or giving you the technical support, the consultancy and all of that?

Right. I'll give you an example from a industry. Um, the food service industry, right? So when you're selling ingredients, similar to when you're selling parts, right? You have thousands of parts, thousands of ingredients. When you're selling to a chain of hotels, um. You know, what's going to be different from it?

The salt and that's all that butter, that and the other butter. Now there is a slight variation yet at the end, products get to be specified, get to be approved. And now how easy it becomes for that buying organization to buy the products when they need them. So they integrate, there is a certain level of integration, which makes Dealing with a sales professional, completely irrelevant.[00:12:00] 

So today, the purchasing, the procurement function inside of these hotels, who have access to this integration with certain suppliers, certain systems, are able to place orders without the need of a sales professional. Now, what happens, right? In the, in a, in a world where you're bringing in products that might be different, that might be new because of a certain insight.

So when you're selling a me too product, such automation, such integration makes sense. But when you're bringing something that is completely out of the box. That's when then a sales professional needs to speak with the, with the expert, demonstrate it, have to show, uh, you know, uh, value, have to show why this versus another one so that it gets listed and then it gets to be specified.

True. You know, I think, I think it's, it's, it's all about how much we, we can add, add value to the product. To the, the chain itself and sometimes the, the training [00:13:00] or the like, educating the custom can be the highest cost, but also the highest return because of that education. Correct. Now, if we look at a typical sales team in the B2B sphere, they are always on the phone.

And I think there is a difference between a good salesman on the phone and a and a a a less good or not as effective. Yeah. Uh, if we look at that, I think how much they're preparing before they pick up the phone. And I think we have discussed that also, that they pick up the phone and they were warm up with a customer and then we have a disaster.

So, so how important is it to prepare before going into a call? Well, it's the same. level of importance that a Olympic athlete would prepare before having a go at a race or having a go at an attempt at a certain game. I think this, this is [00:14:00] good to listen to. You know, the, seriously, the, um, the, the concept of, you know, how, how do the best get better?

Whether it's in sales, whether it's in sports, whether it's in anything, it has to be by practice, by practicing the right approach, by practicing the right technique. Right? We were also talking about karate, right? Practicing the wrong technique gets you nothing, but practicing the right technique gets you far, gets you far.

So then There are elements where someone can practice by themselves. They can practice with a coach. Someone can observe them, give them feedback, give them certain adjustments. So. Again, how critical practice is, it is very critical and for sales professionals. So there are maybe a few things you practice.

So first you got to do your research about the customer. You got to understand, uh, you know, the WIIFM, what's in it for them, what's in it for me, which is them. So you, you would research, let's look [00:15:00] at maybe five C's. You'd research the country, what's happening in the country, where the customer is operating.

Try to do a certain PESEL analysis, political, you know, economical, legislative, and so forth and so on. You see what's happening. Sometimes legislation is causing some, uh, some buyers to want to buy certain things, to want to specify, have certain products and, you know, in the midst of, you know, go, go for certain, certain things.

So that's the, the country you look at understanding their company, what are their goals, their mission, vision, values, what are their aspirations, right? In some occasions. So they Uh, looking at CSRs, looking at sustainability. These are things that's coming to the, that is, that is coming, becoming more and more relevant.

So someone, if it's on emission and vision statement of an organization, well, somebody on the inside is responsible to bring this mission and vision into life. [00:16:00] So if your products are more sustainable and you're not. Aware that this is actually the direction the companies wanna go. Mm-hmm. Then you're missing out on a potential selling proposition.

True. So look at the co country, look at the, uh, the company. Then you look at their customers, their consumers, and their competitors. Mm-hmm. So who are their customers? Who are the consumers? So of course the customers is who you sell to. The consumers is who buys what you sell to them. Yes. Right. So, and a maybe any.

scenario. The customer could be the mom, but the consumer is the child who buys the child's, uh, kids mean, right? So the mom today is becoming more healthy. She doesn't want to, she doesn't want the Coke. And that's why we've seen the juices being introduced in the menu. We've seen healthier options for children as opposed to other things in the back.

So, and then who are they competing at? So you got to understand why, why should they give you their time? So if you don't have that bit of [00:17:00] research and understanding, you will definitely, uh, be rejected because Today, customers don't have time to waste. So whether you utilize, sorry to interrupt you, that research in prospecting.

So if you're doing cold outreach, right, I've seen people connect with me on LinkedIn and then next day I accept. And next thing they're trying to pitch me something. They don't know who I am. They don't know who I am. It's like, Habibi, I'm, I'm the sales consultant, sales speaker, professor, right? You just don't do that.

You know, you just come with, don't do that on me. Don't do that. It's like, who taught you how to sell? You know? So they're like violating the first rule. People buy from people they know, like, and trust. If I've just Clicked. Okay, let's get to know each other. What happened to getting me to like you first and maybe getting and then trust you?

Yes, right liking you is not me You getting something from me, but liking you is use the law of reciprocity Give me something Do give me a certain Some [00:18:00] value. Yes recognize my work, right do something there definitely so I know we've kind of, I've chopped this, but then there is the other part, which is okay.

Now I've done my research. Do I have the capacity, the capability to actually say what I want to say? So now what people, where people fail is in structuring what they say. When they are face to face with customers and they leave it to chance to come up with the words. Sometimes, you know, I've had to say, I had a key account manager when I worked in Unilever came to me and said, Ramesh Sharif, this was you.

If you remember, we were in the car after a meeting, he said, you know what, Ramesh? Um, Sometimes I have the customer. Sometimes the meeting goes as as planned, and sometimes the meeting doesn't go as planned. Now, I was with him that time, and it was okay. I said, Sharif, tell me, do you do you follow the scripts and the different templates that we shared with you?

He said, Sometimes I follow it. Sometimes I [00:19:00] don't follow it. I said, well, here's your answer. If you're not following, you know, if you have to think about what to say, then you'll be hesitant. Then you will not show confidence. You'll show lack of confidence, and then you'll be derailed. The customer is able to sense you, is able to sense your confidence right then and there.

I think, I think the moment you hesitate over the phone or over a meeting, you already showed that you are not capable. And I think I started in technical sales and sales and, and, you know, and even until I was, you know, after almost 20 years in sales, I will not pick up the phone without knowing what I want to know.

And preparing myself, even I, I, I rehearsed with myself loudly before. And, and if you don't do just, if you just pick the phone, things would be very, very different. You leave things to the chance you may or may not. You may be, [00:20:00] you leave it more to the luck than rather to them to what could you really. And I think with today also world is that we are all busy.

We want, if we pick up the phone, we want to hear what is relevant to us. And we want you to add value to me, not. I don't care if your story is successful. I don't care if your product are in genius product. I care about what is it for me. And this is we have to look at it from a customer, a customer that picks up the phone.

What value are you adding? What, how much do you know and how much you can bring that proposition? And as you, as you well said, if we, if we are not ready, if we are not prepared, if we are not, this is where I think you lose your, your shot. You lose your credibility. And once you lose your credibility, it's very hard to come back.

It's true. Um, you know, something came to mind. when you were describing [00:21:00] and I forgot, you know, it happens. Um, yes, yes. It, it has to do with, with, um, did you know that a, you said that I, I practice what I want to say beforehand and that's similar to a formula one race driver will actually walk the track.

Before a race, and they are actually memorizing every single nuance of that track today. If you're in sales and you're not looking at potential nuances that can happen within a sales conversation, then actually your car would be derailed and you won't be as ready to handle. What gets thrown your way. So that's again, the, the importance of that, uh, planning and preparation.

I, I, I, if we look at it, uh, in general, anything we want to do at any point of time, we actually, even if you are a salesman that have been doing this [00:22:00] for years, I think it's gets. It gets even more important because you're, the higher you are in that ranking, the more important that you're doing the stay up on top, imagine world champions like Rafael Nadal or a Roger Federer.

How did the best stay on top of their game? Multiple times, they had to break their game, reinvent themselves to be able to get to that next level. Because if you're static, if you're not evolving and changing your game, well, the end is near. And we've seen that where even the best of the best, you know, Rafael beat Federer at one point in time, Djokovic beat Rafael, you know, so they, the best keep challenging each other.

To, to keep moving up. And as you said, the moment the sales professional thinks, I'm, I'm at the top of my game and I don't need to, it, the start, at the end of, it's the start of the end of the, of the end. And today, especially with the rise of, of ai, the [00:23:00] rise of, uh, certain tools where everyone has access to, to make, to, to, to provide the proper practice environment for a seller.

Right? If you're not utilizing these tools, then you're falling behind very quickly. Very quickly. And, and, and, you know, and once you, this starts, it's very difficult to stop because then you, it's like a negative spiral. I'll tell you, I've had many scenarios where Customers, clients call us, call me and they say, Ramez, you know, I just want you to do a little bit of a touch up for my team.

They got 20 years experience. They're, they're experienced, but we just need to do a little bit of a refresher. Let's just face it. If someone has 20 years experience that needs a refresher. I'm sorry, but they don't have the experience. People have been in sales for 20 years. The way sales have happened in the past, I'm being a bit blunt in here, right?

I'm challenging this. People, you know, the way that sales have happened in the past is not the same that sales are happening today. [00:24:00] If somebody needs a refresher, it means they haven't evolved their game. They haven't progressed the way that they are, that they are providing value. And what they're facing today is, is, is, is, is enormous resistance.

Resistance by who? By their clients, and they're not converting, not closing, and management is sitting paying heavy salaries, and they're not getting value. So the expression that sometimes someone has a experience and has one year experience repeated over 20 times, so repeated for 20 years, so they have some experience, I'm not taking that away, but yet today, how much you stay on top of your game.

So that continuous, you know, evolvement you and I believe in personal, you know, in personal education, continuous education, continuous improvements. And, uh, I have multiple coaches. Even as a professor, as a business owner, definitely, if I don't have a ready health coach, if I don't have a business coach, someone who's coaching [00:25:00] the coach to keep evolving, we all need to evolve at a certain point.

And I think nowadays it's also the, the availability of information, uh, the availability. I mean, if there is a will, there is a way. And I think having 10 or 15 years of a sales experience does not mean That you can just now relay on it and, and in the, in the last 10 years, the whole game have changed dramatically with.

Forget 10 years. It's been the last two years since this, you know, chat GPT thing has, uh, has come live. You know, we, we, we look at just, this is a bit specific to our industry, just like We, we look at the market in two different ways. We say we have a structured market and an unstructured market. The structured market is big companies, they have a tender, very planned, they know in the coming three years, we're going to need this, we're going to, and this is beautiful.

And I think [00:26:00] it's, it's a lots of companies try to capture that, which is, which is fine. And I think they need a certain value proposition for this, which is all what we said. They have a very strong structure. But then. You have the unstructured market. And there's plenty of those, a lot more of those than the others.

We have done some studies with some, some consultants looking at certain countries and certain industries. In certain countries in the region, we have more than 50 percent of the market is unstructured. And look at, in a very simple way, we can, I will not name a country, but I would say we work with, with sugar industries in Africa.

And there are some companies that they're ahead of their game. Well planning. They contact us, they tell us, okay, in the next year we're gonna need these products, these products. Uh, general bearing production takes six to eight months. The premium brand takes six to eight months. So if you are not telling me in advance forecast, you'll be done.

All, all of [00:27:00] that. And this is what what makes us. It's able to do it based on data history. We know the customer, another market, I mean, we have been for 40 years, but the unstructured market is also a different game. A customer that have a failure requires a different value or a different needs than a customer that can give you that planning and how to approach them.

And if, if, if you Like, how you deliver? When do you deliver? What is the kind of technical service? Because when things fail, I usually say automation is great, but when things go wrong, you need technical people. You need the consultants. You need a problem solver rather than just a system. And I think all of these have added a bit of complexity to, to the, to how B2B sales is.

And I think this regard of what industry. I think the complexity is there, and I think in our region, there is [00:28:00] more opportunity. There is a lot of opportunity in the unstructured market as well as the structured market. Let's let's look at the life of a salesman. I mean, when we look at B2B as well, we participate in different events.

We have auto mechanic. We have different industrial events. And recently we, I had, I was in a discussion with, uh, I like to do some role play with the salesman. I like to, so, so I said, what is your, your, tell me one challenge that it's on top of your head. And I wanted to ask you this, this question. Sorry, you're talking to the salesman or you're talking to who you're talking to one of our sales guys.

Okay. So I told him, give me one challenge. That is on top of your head, okay? Just, it doesn't mean to be hard, just come up with something, and, um, and he said, I see how you do, but I'm not sure, like, when we, [00:29:00] when we are in an event, You, you don't hesitate to speak to people and somehow they, they take you in a different way.

And I, he said, how can I do that? And I think this is as simple as the question is, I think when, because in B2B it's not all sales, not always on the phone, there's our events, there is meetings. And so how you approach the customer in, in an event.

So that's a really great question.

You remember I spoke about people buy from people they know, like, and trust. So once you build these three things, then you move into, they'd be willing to try what you have. And when they try, you prove yourself, then they buy. Now notice the steps. So in event. To go from knowing you, meeting you, to buying, there is [00:30:00] all these steps in between, right?

So my goal is to just get to the next. To the next step. To the next step. Correct. So if I'm meeting someone that is a complete stranger, what's the whole objective is to find some sort of level of common ground, rapport building. Absolutely. Perfect. So I think it really adds, you know, there's a saying that says a smile adds to your face value, you know, so it's just the way when you're spotting people, people coming to the booth, looking at the booth, looking up and down, and you're sitting there and maybe you're thinking, shall I approach them, not approach them?

You know, when people are at an event, they are approachable. If not, they wouldn't be at this event. So the question is, how do you get a conversation going that allows the person to chat with you. So don't say, you know, asking yes or no questions. You know, can I help you? No, right? I hate this question. I really, yeah.

So [00:31:00] maybe another question might be, Hey, uh, what are you from? What company are you from? That just, I'm from blah, blah company. Oh, great. Tell me more. What brings you to this event? So what are you trying to accomplish? Now if notice, I'm not saying anything about my company. I'm trying to understand. The person, their goals, what are their objectives?

Because I have a network, I have certain knowledge, I have certain competence, and my goal is to find something in common, right? So you might know they're from this one industry, you might have a friend there, you could bring that as a part of the conversation, you show that you're from the industry. Uh, and then if they mentioned a goal, you might be able to support them, give them value.

And then what is the next step? So what is, what is that next step? You can simply invite them to maybe if you have a certain, uh, activity, a certain demo, a certain something, as you build that bit of rapport at value, you can then possibly do a small invitation, get them to come to [00:32:00] see a demo, get them to say, look, you know, we're having a get together.

Why don't you come? Are we having this? Why don't you do that? We have one of our suppliers here. He's got, so you got to find a way to get someone you know, to that next, to that next activity. And from there, you just keep building on that. You know, like this is, this is, this is perfect because I think what they try always to do is to jump.

No, you trust you to sell you forget. No, you're like, you trust you. They know. Hi, how are you? You want to buy? It's like, if we sell this, do you need it? No. Oh, okay. Bye. That doesn't work. And I think, you know, this is, um, so crucial to, because then I will not buy from you if I don't like you and I don't trust you.

Yeah. I don't know. You, you know, all, all of this. And, and this is where at at least we have to start. Now, if he gets to know you, then maybe he gets to like you. Maybe he gets to trust you and, and I think trying to squeeze that in, in the first conversation, [00:33:00] it never works. Correct. And, and you know, now an exhibition or an event is one way, but I think when we meet people in general.

Like, you know, we travel all a lot and so on. And sometime beside you sits somebody working in an organization. And, and like, I've, I've done so much of sales over like in an airplane or in a, in a train, the, the, the recent one. So I was, I was in China and, um, So they have this new bullet trains and they, they, they have this called the, I don't know, the business class train, which is a nice, a nice, because once you want to travel 4, 000 kilometer, you want to have that.

And then beside me, there was a gentleman working for the pump industry in Saudi. And, you know, we had the chat and we got to know each other over this. These are the best trips, by the way, sitting next to someone on a plane or a [00:34:00] train. But if you try to sell this guy, this guy will put his headphones and then never talk to you.

Correct. But actually over that conversation, you know, before he, he, he stepped off the train because I'm going to the next, he said, this is my business card. Can one of your engineers contact us? Wow. Wow. And, and this is, I think, trying to hijack that to try to come to. I want to sell you. I have a very good product.

You want to buy? It doesn't work. So that conversation on the train, probably you had multiple touch points, maybe beginning of the, of the meeting, you know, beginning of the encounter. You didn't have a very fluid conversation. Hi, how are you? Da, da, da. Then it started a bit about where are you from? What do you do?

Blah, blah, blah. And then, oh, really? You're in that? I'm so, I'm so am I. And then you started talking and you started building. See, that takes time. Yes. And in that conversation, the person [00:35:00] can sense if what you're saying is to take something away from them. So are you a giver or are you a taker? And, and, and, and this is why I think a lot of these naive mistakes that salesman do is trying to go back.

They're just simply taking. So I'm sure in that conversation, you had some, uh, expert knowledge. You gave certain insights, you gave certain cases, you gave certain it's as if I was with you on the train. Right. You know, it's, it's. It's crazy how, how things go. I mean, usually I never try to, and then now I'm not in sales directly, but we know how to do it.

We know it's, it's not a, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yes. And, and, and if you, you know, when He was, so I asked him, why are you in China? He said, we have a challenge at certain products. And I was thinking, okay, but if you know, I can give you [00:36:00] this, there is this industry, they can give you an advice on this.

If you want, we can help you in one, two, three. And I, I. What I tried is really to help him out. I did not try to sell him. Of course, but at the end of the conversation he gave, please, this is my time. That is the value of earning his trust. So the concept of getting to trust. So there is something called Herrick honesty.

A is, is, uh, Ability. So are you capable? Are you honest? Are you, do you have the ability, uh, reliability, intimacy, and care? He has to be able to, to feel these things before he gives you his card. Most people say, hi, how are you? This is my card, right? And that, and that is the last thing you want to do.

Everyone shuts off. Correct. So again, it's, uh, if I can talk a bit about. the psychological impact of you being pushy. You release a certain hormone in someone's brain called, uh, cortisol. Now cortisol is the fight, flight, or [00:37:00] freeze hormone. So when you're being pushy, someone's brain goes, am I going to find this person?

Am I going to, you know, back off or, or am I, you know, so, so, so that's that the opposite when you're building that relationship, when you're building this conversation, um, research shows. That when you listen attentively, ask follow up question on what someone is saying, it actually releases a, releases a hormone called oxytocin.

And oxytocin is the hormone of trust. It's a feeling that you get that the person really cares, really is listening. And when someone has that, that, uh, you know, Uh, hormone being released because you're listening to them attentively, you're paying attention, you know what they want, what they care about, you're giving them advice, man, you don't have to sell.

They actually Wants to buy. They want to buy. Yes. And actually think about the [00:38:00] word, want to buy. You are in a much better position if somebody wants to buy from you than you want to sell to somebody. And then you have to create that desire. You know, sometimes I, I Even in a B2B environment. People think that people buy because of technicality or whatever.

Let me tell you, let me tell you, people, this, this expression that says people buy, uh, people buy, people, uh, buy, uh, logically. No, no, people buy emotionally and they justify it logically. Definitely. Research, time and time, has demonstrated that, uh, people buy emotionally. So I get it. Uh, emotionally involved, and then you justify it, and then you justify it.

Logically, it's all about whatever you're selling. At the end, the decision somehow is emotional. I like to work with you, and then I would find a way why I, I convincing my company to buy because this company is the best company and buy for a premium, buy for that [00:39:00] extra, extra edge. I, I think, I think if, if we add enough, again, The value is a big word, that's why I keep using the word value, but if we add enough value, now what, whatever is that value, I think this is where you create that trust, you create that, um, and I think when you want to give, if you focus to give before you try to take, it's change the whole game.

I've, I've went to certain industry, some, some, sometimes, uh, when I, none, our sales guy needs some technical support. So I go there, I tell them that not to mention that I'm the MD, because once the MD, everyone freaks out, the maintenance guy is, I go there just to supervise and look at the technical part and give pure.

advice. Okay. So this product, you can prolong the machine life. If you use this product [00:40:00] using this maintenance this way, you know, and then I leave for them to continue. And they, after The relation changed completely because you did not go there to sell them something, but to help them out, especially if they are stuck on a problem and they cannot find a solution.

I have a very, in the very, very early stage of, of my sales career as a technical engineer. Um, so there was a diamond polishing company, um, I will not mention the country. But, so we, so they had failures, a lot of failures, because they have the, the machine or the construction of this, uh, uh, facility was, uh, done at the same time.

So all the machines follow the same kind of pattern. So after five, six years, they started to fail one after another, [00:41:00] which is normal. Then you have to do the maintenance and so on. But when they started doing the maintenance, they faced, um, a problem that after finishing the maintenance, the machine originally worked for four or five years without a problem.

They do the maintenance, the machine failed after two weeks again. Of course, the guys tried, they changed the product, brought something, and then suddenly they started to panic because they have 50 machines and each one of them started to fail one after another. It's a big business. It's, it's a very delicate business.

It's, it's quite, uh, I would say, uh, Impactful. Very impactful. Fifty machines working on diamonds, you know. And so then, um, I got a call from, um, one of our suppliers. He said, Hassanian, one of our clients is facing a problem. We don't have engineers. that can help because the time it's, it's, they need it in a short time.

You are [00:42:00] closer to them. Can you help out? I said, yeah, I'm willing. So we went there. I went there looking at this, um, set up, how they were doing the maintenance, you know, in, in one day, I discovered the, the issue. And we did one test, uh, to one machine to do it a little bit differently, changing a certain product, looking at the technicality, how they maintain, you know, in, in our, this is our Our machines that are running 10, 000 RPM, 5, 000 RPM, round per minute.

It's very speed because you are talking about diamonds and, and a small change in the efficiency of the machine, the machine will destroy itself. The, the, the. The moral of the story, when, when I wanted, I gave my advice [00:43:00] as the, the maintenance engineer and the company CEO, he said, we want to work with you.

I said, but I'm here just to help. No, we want to work with you. I said, I want you to work with our clients and we will be behind to support and, and they signed. a one year contract with our client just because of this course. And if you look, did I go to sell now? And the perception of the customer, the perception of what we have done was changed completely.

And I, and I think this is, this is the, the added value that we sometimes forget. And we think about, okay, I have this at this price, please buy. And if you say, no, I can give you. Discount. And this is how, how sales is, is happening. And [00:44:00] this is why it's not sustainable.

I have another question, which is, which is, uh, somehow, somehow related to, to what, what we were saying. Before you go into that question, you know, this is a beautiful example, uh, Hassanein, and there is a law out there called the law of reciprocity. And you said that before you take. You should give. And it's, it's actually been written about, uh, in the famous book by Dr.

Robert Chaldini, the Six Laws of Influence. One of them is the law of reciprocity, giving, uh, expecting nothing. Right. Is, is only how the law of the universe works. It's a, it's, it's only a matter of time before the person would wanna reciprocate what was given. Hmm. So in this case, you're giving, you know, selflessly Hmm.

Right when there to. simply support because you've been asked and you saw [00:45:00] the impact of that. So, um, uh, again, one of the, the, uh, the famous, uh, uh, quotes out there by Zig Ziglar, which talks about in order to get what I want, I have to give somebody what they want first. Uh, if you look at the definition of a customer in Webster, the Webster dictionary.

You can read it. You can Google and check it out. It says a customer is somebody who is under the protection of another So a customer is somebody who is under the protection of the protection of another so which means You as a seller, a customer is under your protection. You as a seller, in this case, that customer, you are protecting him.

You are giving him support. You're giving him advice. So at the academy, we have this as part of our DNA, where to sell is to be of service to another person. To serve them [00:46:00] is to put them under your protection. So you gotta know more about the customer's business than they know about it themselves, thus becoming that, uh, indispensable, uh, value add.

If you're not an indispensable value add, then you are indispensable. You know, so you are, you are dispensable. Sorry, you know, so they don't need you in that process. You know, like, we, we definitely Um, time now, 10 years from, from today, I think time is, will evolve, evolve a lot. But let's look at the, the, the past few years, at least looking at the digital transformation, looking at, um, calling, uh, you know, um, keeping a good customer relation or on distance, how to maintain a customer [00:47:00] relation that you are meeting maybe once or twice.

So, well, what is the relation? You know, what's a customer relation? Relation exists because of commonality, because of common goals, because of certain objectives. Um, whether these are business objectives, personal objectives, is having, is finding these commonalities. So if you have the luxury of meeting a customer once or twice a year, that's a blessing because today in our global economy, sometimes you don't even have the chance to meet them.

Right? So you have to do a lot of, a lot of work. So again, you have to understand where are they along the buying cycle. So from awareness to liking to trusting to them, trying and buying. And the key is, is how do you continuously add value to your clients? So, so if you're going to call them, if you're going to reach out to them [00:48:00] today, we are in the knowledge economy.

So what research, what insights are you going to bring to your customers to even open your email, to even want to answer your phone call, to even have that conversation. So always find a way to give, give something that you know is of interest to them, is of value to them and watch how eventually they will be there.

I'll just give you an example that happened for me. To me today, I have a client that I worked with for a period almost of nine months back in 2018. I have set up a lot of infrastructure within their sales and sales department, building trainings, building leadership programs, and putting certain KPIs.

Now, the beautiful thing is that company has done extremely well, and they have, a lot of these initial seven or eight people I worked with have now become department heads. They have people under them, right? And I have been in touch with that organization since the time I [00:49:00] stopped being in touch with them.

So we're no longer I'm not visiting their premises. I'm not in touch with them on a regular basis. I'm in touch with the owners. They're invited to activities to events. You've even attended some of my events. So I create these touch points to keep that front of mind to keep the academy front of mind. So when the need arises, which happened this morning, the client Called me up, right?

It didn't, it didn't happen by mistake. Over the last eight years now, or 2018, six, seven, eight, seven years or so now, right? That continuous touch points, I was invited to the wedding of the nephew, right? So I was there, you know, and so again, And it's genuine. It's sincere. So that's how, when the need arises, I was the person front of mind.

You are in their, in their mind because you have given something. Of value during a certain time of period. And I have maintained that [00:50:00] relationship, not because what am I going to get today? Hmm. It's, it's, it's, I know that again, if eventually it will pay off, eventually it will pay off. Now do I spend a lot of time on these activities?

Look, I have one event and in our case we do a public program and I, uh. invited you, invited them, right? So I give some complimentary seats, it cost me almost nothing. But then the goodwill that gets generated, the referral, the recommendation, da, da, da, it goes, it goes without saying. So if you're selling with a client that is remote, you're not seeing that client and you're thinking, I need to build that relationship.

You and your company need to have programs and systems in place that actually get the customer to interact, to engage, and then to see you as the go to supplier. When the need arises, then they're there. We're working with an organization where we've mapped out their buyer's journey, and we found that one key, one key element is to invite [00:51:00] the customers to your premise.

And to do a lunch and learn to do something, but get them in. This is a interior design and interior fit out organization. Okay. And you go to that offices, you get to really see the quality. If you just talk with someone on the phone and they don't know you, they don't want to. They could actually be very price sensitive, but once they come to the, uh, to their own office, they will understand the difference.

They are gonna have a complete difference. So, but we decided to see, well, how many, uh, in house meetings and in house, uh, let's say, how many people they can bring into their premise. And this is a way of, let's say, uh, having a reason. So maybe do a training seminar, share what are the insights. And they deal with a lot of architects, a lot of designers.

Come show them what's new, how it, how they can add value to their clients. They'll come. As simple as that. Yeah. If we look, if we look at. at [00:52:00] sales in general. We cannot deny the growth of online sales, e commerce. Um, it's estimated that e commerce will be three billion, three trillion dollars by 2027. Now, companies Could be in a different stage on this.

I think when it's come to B2B, it's a different, uh, challenge. How to give value to the customer through an online tool or online sales, but still stay relevant in terms of still make it personalized, make it give value in additional just to commoditize the products. To avoid the commoditization of the product.

Look, we maybe touched upon that briefly at the very beginning. Um, what comes to mind here is always about, again, the WIIFM. And today, if you, [00:53:00] if you talk with clients, you interview clients, you understand What are their goals? What are their needs? What do they expect from the online platform? What do they expect from you as a supplier to share with them, to give them?

I mean, not to go very far today. You go on Amazon and you buy, let's say you buy a microphone and you might tell you people that they bought this microphone, bought a, a certain equal, you know, equalizer or mixer or headsets or so they, they know through simple Um, data through simple algorithms, if you, this is what you like, there's chances that you're going to also like these other things.

It actually works. It works because someone is taking away that burden of you thinking so. So today, uh, it's, it's about realizing, uh, how can I add value to my client without being disruptive or without being not disruptive, interrupting or being, yeah, disruptive to their moods, right? Is what you're doing, adding value or not.[00:54:00] 

The question in here, who's, who is going to go on the, on the site? Who is on the site? If it's technical people, if it is people that are maybe not as technical, maybe people that are in, uh, in purchasing, there is a concept in purchasing called the TCO, total cost transfer. of ownership. So today, um, possibly, again, I don't, I don't know.

However, if, if people that are going on a certain website are looking at the price of something, but then you have something called TCO, and then somebody would click and then they'd see their own machine. They'd see their own industry. They'll see their own, maybe own case, see case studies that could be relevant to them to help educate that person in terms of what.

is a better option. Is there a better option out there? Then of course, let them have the option to talk with a live person. And now we're able to, to, um, uh, you know, a lot [00:55:00] of times people don't want the pressure. They don't want to be responsible for making the wrong decision. True. Right. So as much as you can minimize that, You're adding value.

Look, this is my insights at this moment, yet this is coming from years of experience and listening to the voice of the customer, listening to what the customers want. So for me, uh, it's, it's understand that have a better, a deeper understanding and then be able to provide that value that customers are looking for.

Great. Um, I think, I think when we go to some technical products a bit. technical product that you need to help the customer, uh, understand. You want to help the customer, uh, understand the value of this product. And, and sometime I like to listen to how the sales, the sales guys do their sales pitch and so on.

And I think sometimes it goes on to the features of the products. [00:56:00] Okay. This product is this size, this, this, and, you know, I, I. I personally think that that doesn't sell, that doesn't sell. And this is why I, as, as an expert in this, I think, and, and people always sort of, especially engineers when they want to try, because they are so fascinated about this product.

Okay. This is, you know, this, this, this, this material or this specific, you know, or this speed and which, which is, which is in a way, correct, correct as, as an attribute or features of the product. But I think. They miss the point of delivering that value to the customer and the customer say, okay, send me the sheet.

I'll think about it. Click. Correct. I'm going to build on the story that you gave right now, which is the story of the diamond machinery because you had a lot of technical knowledge going there. Yeah. Right. And you tell me how much did that [00:57:00] technical knowledge. From just the tech, if you would have shared the technical points with the customer have seen how this feature is going to help them solve.

The problem of breaking or the problem of, uh, of that. What did you solve? Actually, actually, if I would have told them, first of all, they would not believe because some of their engineers are saying, you know, but we try this, you know, we, we know this brand or we know this product. And I, I actually, this, this, this, if I look what I did at that time, I, I, I looked at the, the, the whole, the whole process.

How they maintain, what product they are choosing, and what mistakes they are making. And one thing that nobody likes is you tell them you're wrong. And, and I had to, you know, to look at it the whole, the whole way. And I actually did an example of how we should do, rather than telling, okay, you're wrong, you did this, [00:58:00] because nobody wanna, even the most professional, they don't want to be wrong.

But showing them how things work. are done. And later on, it's like, it's like when you go to a doctor, a doctor examine you, and then they give you an advice and maybe a prescription. But if you just try to take the prescription, you think, but this is not, what is this? And I think that story and how you deliver the value, it's more than, at the end, the prescription is the product they're going to buy.

But how it is done, and you know, I, I, I insisted that I will not reveal The findings until I would have the CEO, the technical and the maintenance, because, uh, it felt to me, I will speak to one of them. It will not deliver the value to, you know, until. So I had, [00:59:00] so three different stakeholders, because they have to understand there is some changes have to be done, how the maintenance is done.

They have to, the, the, the technical guy have to understand the technicality because he's actually was buying the wrong products. There is a very small difference, but one is for, for a certain speed, another it's the angle and so on. So that, and at the end, the, the, let's say the CEO have to understand that he need to improve here and there and, and, and keep this cohesive because then the purchaser will not agree maybe on the specification.

And all of this. And, and I think bringing this before the product, at the end of the day, that prescription, what I gave, okay, we should buy this product and done this way. And if you look at, at the end, I suggested a type of bearing and a type of grease. But if I would give it on the phone. Nobody would even look at it.

Yes, because it's then, what are you saying? What you just did there is [01:00:00] called, you get their buy in. You basically shared with them and looked at their paints, right? So again, the specifications are one. Yet, you understanding the problem, understanding the impact of the problem to the different stakeholders.

So the CEO wanted the machines up and running productivity, productivity, right? The technical person doesn't want to look bad. Right? So you were very kind to kind of. Making realize there's a slight difference. It might look the same yet. This is this is what it is, right? um And the purchasing basically was given the okay by the Ceo to say look man.

It's okay. This is not the big, you know, if we're gonna save money, it's not gonna be here It's gonna be somewhere else get the damn thing. You got my blessing, you know, so basically You help them come together To realize it's not just about the [01:01:00] features, but you got the buy in for them To actually get that thing resolved.

So so going back to features tell And benefits selling. And it's not, so there's a big thing is called the so what. A lot of technical people who are technical, you know, tell me about it has this amount and this amount and this amount of RPM and resistance. And they say, so what? Well, if you're the engine, you know, if you're the maintenance, so that.

You won't have to have the CEO give you a call, say what's happening with the machine. So what? So that your machine can produce these widgets so that you can sell, you can sell them. So what? So that, you know, so there's always this, so what, that many of the decision makers, uh, uh, need to hear. So do you know what is this?

So what? So always put yourself in their shoes and neutralize, you know, sometimes you could be so much into. the features or the features of the product because you know that this is what makes it work. [01:02:00] Habibi, great. Talk about if it works, so what? What happens if this makes it work? So this is the feature.

It does this result so that you can get this benefit. That's highlighting the benefits. That's the, that's the benefit to one person is different from that of another person. So it's simple, yet we sometimes have a difficulty in listening to what the customer actually needs. And that's where we don't know what to say, as in our offering of a solution.

You know, I, I, I, when you said simple, I, I had a coach one time tell me business or technical sales. It's simple, but not easy. And, and it's true because I think, yes, the, the, the steps are the same step. If you're selling a technical product or not a technical product, you have to, to, to deliver [01:03:00] what is it for them, for them.

I tell you many of the organizations at today, I serve who have technical products. Right. So I'm, I have one of our clients is a, uh, uh, they sell, uh, stainless steel drainage systems, right? A stainless steel drainage system, uh, stainless steel, aluminum, sorry, aluminum, right? Very expensive, right? But aluminum is very durable and very hygienic and very heat resistant and so forth and so on, which minimizes certain flaws in, uh, in, in, uh, in factories.

So the sales team is so technically, oh, they love the technicality, but they're missing the point. So one thing we do with such organizations, Is we actually do, um, what I call consequence product trainings. So we Yeah, what is the consequence of? Implications. [01:04:00] Implications. The implications, man. So many people don't even know, don't even know the concept of, of a compelling event.

They want, uh, they want to renovate this factory. Why? I don't know. They just want the specification and they go into specification. Yes. Um, let's say quotations. Yes. This is, this is, this is 20 years ago. Yes. Today, today, if you don't understand the consequence training, so I was at an event at a food safety event just last week and one of the, uh, one of the machinery manufacturer was there and he was telling me, and this is some, a company, uh, a very huge organization with a presence in, uh, in Asia, in Europe, in the U S a huge same challenge.

Salespeople are very technical and they have an issue with technical sales training. So the technique, the technical, the technicality. So [01:05:00] understanding this implication for, for technical salespeople can be quite a, a revealing exercise that allows them to then see the light. See what the customer is seeing, not what they are selling, what the customer sees and what they're selling.

And what is the value for them to buy it or not to buy it and then delivers that value. Correct. But when you look at technical sales, it's usually, as you said, a marathon, not a sprinter. It sometimes goes into cycles, months, implications, specification, attender. And, and usually I've seen that, okay, the, the salesman is in very interactive, very engaged, but how do we keep the customer and the sales engaged in a long cycle of sales?

And I think this is, lots of companies are challenged by this. When the cycle of sales takes eight to ten months. Forget it. Sometimes it takes, uh, three years if a factory is being [01:06:00] under production and, you know, getting built. Yes. Correct. So, so again, it goes back to having that long term perspective.

Organizations have to realize if opportunities are going to take a longer period of time, are they willing to go for those opportunities? And if they are, they need to understand the potential, uh, uh, effort, risk, and reward. So there is always an effort. There is risk of things not going well, and then there is reward.

Right. And now the other thing is the capability of the account manager or who the person that is actually leading these activities. So, uh, you gotta have these, if you have a pipeline, you need to have these big deals that you're, are going to take a couple of years to, or maybe more than a year to, uh, to come to fruition.

And you're going to have the medium and then you're going to have the bread and butter that keeps the, the engine running. Correct. If you only work on some, you're not [01:07:00] being as efficient. If you only work on the others, you're going to start before you can make it. You know, if you have a big reserves, then, then you'll do that.

So, uh, so what I would say here for organizations and for individuals is you gotta, you gotta then have a map for the various touch points of how you're going to stay front of mind of, of a, of a, of a, you know, of that client. So what value are you bringing? So again, in such a technical, technical field, you have to be seen as the authority.

You gotta be seen as the authority. So where are you showing up as the authority? What conferences, events are you speaking at where your customers are sitting right in front of you and they're seeing you on the pedestal where you're bringing them this value and you're becoming aware of their project, you're becoming aware of their concerns, you're bringing a certain level of insights.

So today, uh, you don't need to be on a pedestal. We are having a pedestal right here. [01:08:00] So any organization can actually, uh, create value by educating customers, by giving them value. And as you connect with them, you build liking, you build trusting, and then eventually they will, they, they will come. I will value what you're, what you're doing.

A hundred percent. So just. Map these stages and then see what are you doing to become visible, to build liking, trusting, and then get them, uh, then be with them in the entire process. In some occasions, you know this very well, you sometimes go into technical drawings, you go into design, you go into certain things.

So you gotta. You know, you got to have internal resources to help add value. A lot of times you give, you do mock ups, you do certain things, you're spending all this time, effort and energy. And at the end, if you are closer to the customer throughout this journey, uh, and I'll give you here another case study.

We've had scenarios where. Um, with this one organization, [01:09:00] um, they actually, they've worked with it, with, uh, with that company on, they have multiple different, uh, factories. So they've worked with the company in factory a and then factory B. Now. The, the supplier did not start working on factory three, no, they actually kept going back to factory one and factory two and started realizing, Hey, although it is their products, they actually were able to spot areas for improvements.

And they spoke not just with the. procurement, but who lives in the factory is the operations team. So they got the operations team involved to see what needs to happen, the impact of these flaws. And now the operations team spoke with the purchasing spoke with, you know, got them to say, you got to work only with this organization so that we avoid these things.

So when you are that entrenched inside of an organization where you've made a sale, but you keep going back to service because you know, there's going to be value. [01:10:00] This is how you pretty much, uh, lock it in. I, uh, I, I like what you said very much. And I, I usually, for me, you need to be involved. During the whole, the whole cycle of, and the more points of touch between the companies, maybe the technical speak to the technical, maybe you, you are, you don't have one person that is involved into the whole cycle because that person during the cycle can change.

You are much more involved on different level on a different stakeholders as a customer at trying to address. Now, a finance guy, maybe he's more interested about, let's say, credit facility or payment terms or whatever, a technical person. And you need to keep them somehow engaged until the project realized.

And I think if you just engage the sales. The salesman, I think you're losing some part of the, of the puzzle. And this is actually one of [01:11:00] the ways that an organization can hedge against, uh, turnover because today, uh, especially in the long sales cycle, by the time you get to meet with one person, By the time they come to buy, they would have gone to another department, you know, so when you have multiple people, when you have these multiple touch points, this is how you're building your, uh, your safety net.

You're building the relationship, not just with one individual, but at multiple touch points. So the organization knows who the Academy for sales is, who mineral circle bearing is, who whatever. And they know the value that, that, that you bring. You know, so in the case of you and the diamond, uh, yeah, you know, they, they knew who you and who your suppliers are, and you, you met with all three people.

So next time they have a, uh, potential or if, if the neighbor of the person is another owner of another factory, guess what He's gonna, actually, this is many times how [01:12:00] we, we get new clients. Absolutely similar problem appears somewhere and then, then the referral happens. Now, um, studies shows that to, to, to gain a customer cost is five times more expensive to regain a customer that is lost.

And hold on. Say that again. To regain, to regain a customer that is lost, it's, it's five times more expensive. Okay. Okay. Now, how to come back to a customer that you already lost? We can call it that customer or slow, you know, a customer that is not anymore engaged maybe. We call them aged accounts. So customers that stopped buying.

Stopped buying. Customers. Yes. Now, a lot of, of sales guy. struggle with regaining their customer, or lots of companies are struggling, uh, of regaining their customer. In our industry, um, there was a study of done by, by a consulting company saying like 20 percent [01:13:00] of a cost, uh, of the customers. get lost over years.

And 20 percent is a very big number. So, so how to keep them, how to, let's say now keeping them is another question, but how to re engage with a custom that is lost. Okay. You know, I, I tell you the body of research that we work with, it shows that it is easier to contact. It's easier to re establish communication with a lost customer because they bought from you once.

So there used to be a trust at some point in time, maybe you already have them as an account within your organization, the time needed for them to establish the credit, establish that it might be there. There is a history out there, right? Um, so there's got to be what we call a certain, uh, a certain call cycle.

We call it a contact plan or a contact strategy. Okay. So a contact plan or a contact [01:14:00] strategy is needed for different type of customers. So yes, you have a contact plan with your existing customers, you know, the 80 20. So the top accounts need to have a certain level of contact and frequency. Uh, the medium ones will have another and the not so let's say potential ones you just maintain.

Now, the biggest thing here is, is this lapsed customers. Because sometimes there is many of them and no one even calls them and the thing is, we don't even know why. Yes. In many occasions, we found that saves people and, and then I'll give you a case studies where we've actually, um, we've, we've. We've conducted programs that are called an aged account program where we focused on training and teaching salespeople how to call back accounts.

And from calling back accounts, they generated leads, they generated basically [01:15:00] opportunities that converted into millions and millions of dollars, dirhams, whichever currency you want to look at. So. The first step, when you contact someone, are you calling them to take, or are you calling them to give, right?

So you gotta have, this is the key, you gotta, hey, uh, so the past, you know, hey, you used to buy from us, why did you stop? This is definitely the wrong thing to say. You definitely will be, will be hung up on, and you're gonna make the person furious. It's like, I'm feeling guilty. Yeah, your service. Stinks.

Your service this year, they're going to attack you. They're going to attack you versus keeping the doors open. Look, I'm calling you from blah, blah, blah. Uh, you actually used to be clients of ours and I'm simply making a courtesy phone call. Would love to invite you. We'd love to invite you for an [01:16:00] activity, an event where we actually have people from the industry where we're educating this and that, not even mention a need to sell or a need to whatever you want to give, not take, you want to give, not take, uh, you know, Ready?

Another one, another one might be is you used to be clients of ours and we appreciated that business for some way, for some reason, you possibly, you know, you stopped working with us and we highly respect that. I'd love to, I'm gonna be in your town. I'm gonna be in Saudi. I'm gonna be here. All I'd love to do is invite you for a cup of coffee.

Definitely. Or I'd like to invite you for lunch. On me just so that we can you know, I i'd love to get to know more a bit a bit about what's happening in the business If you actually had a relationship now normally what happens is You probably have customers that stop buying where you have a relationship with you know them They know you but it becomes more difficult where you don't have a relationship.

So i'm an account manager coming in [01:17:00] There's a list of A list of, uh, people that, uh, stopped buying and you have to call. So now this is where you gotta do your research, man. You gotta go back and start understanding, you know, what did they buy? Why did they buy that? What's their business? What machines they're using?

Where is your CRM? What is this information, this wealth of knowledge that, is in your, uh, maybe within the archives of your organization, which allow, which is allowing you to better understand what they're doing, how they're doing it and so forth and so on. I'll give you one story. I'm not going to say that I cannot reveal the names, but I've had a, a, an individual who came to one of our programs.

Now he works with a big multinational organization that sells, that sells engines of some sort. Okay. And, uh, who buys these engines are very big organizations. And on their system, it showed that this one organization stopped buying a long time ago. And that the people inside of they're going to label this organization, this client as [01:18:00] hard to deal with.

They don't listen that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. So when you took this, uh, region, He refused to look at that because this is what we teach. You've got to do your research. And he realized that, one second, the machinery or the equipment that this company actually operates is now at an age that's old, at an age where they need certain AMCs.

They need certain repairs. They need certain this, certain this, certain that. So he simply, based on this research, utilized that To proactively call this client to recognize the fact that we haven't worked with each other for the last blah blah blah But based on my research, I found out one two, three four and now the person on the other side is listening.

Yeah That's us And he got a meeting and the best thing is when june comes and he achieved his yearly goal and yearly target and uh Because he was able to find out through research, an aged customer that hadn't bought for hadn't bought, you [01:19:00] know, bought for X amount of years became a, uh, the customer that helped him bust his target middle, bust his target middle of the year and make him, and by the way, that business plan, that proposition became a model.

That the VP, the global VP sales said this, we have to replicate that everywhere else. This is a beautiful story, because at the end of the day, you did not try to sell. You came up, you've done your due diligence, you've done your study, you identified a value you can give. Correct. And then. People are ready to take a value, and, and, and, and this is, I think, I think sometimes the sales stain a company that they are lost.

Okay. So, oh, but they are difficult. They are hard. That's called a belief. This is all internal beliefs that because they face a difficulty because they couldn't crack it, then they label it. And as you label it, you're giving it power. Yes. And then, and then it's becomes on the shelf. But in, [01:20:00] in many times, if you pick up the phone with a different approach or you visit them to say, Hey, you know, I was in the neighborhood and I'm here, you know, to, to say hi because I was in the neighbor.

Nobody would, you know, like today I, I, I, I called a customer that we haven't been working for some time and, uh, I used to know him and I know why he's, he's not buying, which, which we understand and respect and, you know, and we were, you know, talking about all the days, how things are, how's your family. I was, you know, and I really did.

I did not call him to sell, you know, but he said, you know, hasn't in, uh, can you let one of your sales contact our purchasing team? Because there is something we want. And, you know, like, that's it. Rather than trying to say, you know, you have been buying from us for the past two years, but now you're not buying.

Then, then, you know, that, that, I'll tell you [01:21:00] that's exactly what happened with this one client of ours that we've, they had a list of, uh, you know, 15,000 clients, you know, that are aged, haven't done business with, for, uh, you know, it's a 20-year-old organization or more. And, um. as they started talking, invited people for, for lunches and coffees, et cetera.

Uh, they're like, Oh, you do this? We didn't know. Oh, you do this? We didn't know. Oh, you do this? And so again, it's sometimes we stop talking. Uh, we don't have a nurturing process. We don't have the ability to stay, uh, front of mind of the, customers front of mind. We don't have a strategy. We don't have a plan.

I think we think the customer knows us, but they don't. We think that the customer is this way. And we, and as we not listening, we are building our own perception of the customer, which is not. So, so the key is we have to peel these layers. We really have to go back to, I think anytime there is a, there is a list, a list [01:22:00] of established or previous clients.

To me, that's an asset for the organization. And the biggest question is how our organizations, what processes and programs they have in place to actually, uh, bring those back. And I tell you, it is 20 times more expensive. to get new customers. Why? Because by the time you go liking, awareness, liking and trusting, that takes time.

So 20 more times, 20 times more expensive to find a new customer than to bring back an old customer into the, uh, into the, the equation. I think the goal is to keep the customer happy and, and to sustain the, the relation and the customer. Now, I love that we, we continue this discussion, but I will end up this session with the last, uh, I mean, this is a very rich conversation.

I love it. Yes. And you know, like, um, it's, it's so, so nice to be able to, to, to discuss these [01:23:00] things. You know, and I think a lots of our customer have value in today's era. We think about ai. Yes. And, and lots of, of AI is reshaping how business is done, how sales is done, and, uh, how, what, what are the changes in the coming, in the coming years?

Hmm. Now we, we were speaking about something in ai. We, we, we had a discussion and, and, and. I think AI will have an impact on sales organization. And so what is your intake when it come to, to the sales part? So today, if, if people, you know, at first when AI came out, uh, and the AI I am talking about here is the, is Chad.

G Is is Chad. GPT, yeah. Chad, GPT, uh, which then had. multiple different variations and evolutions from that, right, chat GPT, um, um, uh, and, and several of [01:24:00] the other platforms, people resisted that people said, Oh, you know, uh, you know, it will take away this, it will take away that well, if you don't understand the way that this, uh, large language models work, then there is a problem because these large language models are actually allowing, uh, allowing, uh, us as humans to, uh, to become, uh, You know, to, to amplify our powers, to amplify our abilities.

So what, there's something called the cognitive load. Even a sales professional, even a sales leader, even anyone for us to think a lot about, to, to plan an approach with a client, right? To plan your research with a client today, I can actually utilizing, uh, utilizing AI engines. not knowing about a customer, not knowing about an industry.

I can simply, uh, prime, uh, have certain prompts [01:25:00] with, within a certain, uh, uh, certain engine that can actually extract knowledge and give me knowledge as a seller to help prepare me, reduce my prep time from hours for me going online, researching, to actually seconds, if not, you know, minutes or seconds giving me real valuable content and insight to be able to adapt my approach to any situation.

So, so AI is not, is here to stay, uh, fortunately or unfortunately, um, not knowing how to use AI. That one aspect, right? The planning, the thinking, cognitive loads, um, load up the, the, the AI with the things that are in our mind and ask it, and it will give you lots of valuable insights. So this is just one, one way.

The other thing is today that are, that are innovations, I believe, understanding AI and the user case for AI and the way it can actually [01:26:00] amplify sales, especially in our case, sales capability building, sales training. So, so, um. How do the athletes get better? If I'm running, I want to get better. I run. If I am playing tennis, I practice my hits.

So same thing in selling. Today we're seeing AI is being is coming into the ability to act like a customer and being able to utilize force recognition capabilities to then analyze it. What you're saying, give you feedback, right? In real lifetime scenarios. Uh, there are engines today that get plugged in.

If you're selling, if you're selling over the phone or selling over online platforms, uh, there are engines that are plugged in already and are measuring and tracking what you're saying, how you're saying it, giving you a live feedback on what should you do next. So again, this is amplifying your ability as a seller.

Now forget about amplifying your ability. But that is actually helping you build the right [01:27:00] selling coaching or selling skills, right? So building that right habit and repetition allows the seller to become better. So in the past, you needed to hire a coach. You needed to have someone watch you, listen to you, give you feedback.

You can still do that. And today, you know, like genetic AI engines give you genetic answers. But we. You know, we have partnered with an organization in the U. S. where we prime it with our methodology, we prime it with our capabilities, so any We tune it to give you Specific Yes. Uh, specific insights and feedback.

So why I'm saying that is because, you know, uh, This conversation we're having today, uh, what I'd love to see is how companies are able to implement these ideas. Now implementing it with, uh, you know, is, is, is great. The, the question is how do you keep it sustainable and without the tools, [01:28:00] without the infrastructure, it will fail because it will be dependent on.

On a human. Yes. Few people. Few people. And then when the people are not there. So you really want to build that infrastructure. And this is basically what I see the industry moving into today. It's not just about us standing up, speaking and training, but how do we really Create this systems, this longevity within organizations that allows them to operate without us utilizing, uh, proven and tested resource-based content that is properly prepped and primed and helping them drive the, the, uh, their, their capability moving forward.

I love it. You know, I, in an, in a, in an AI event mm-hmm . And I, I like this, so I, I asked this question to an an AI. Experts. And I said, will AI take away sales jobs? Okay? That, that sentence. Simple question, yes. Very simple question. [01:29:00] I love the answer because what he said, AI will not take your sales job, AI, your job will be taken by another sales guy with AI understanding and AI capabilities.

So a sales, another sales guy that is using these tools or another company utilizing these tools are the one that's going to take your customer because they are able to work more efficiently, much faster, much more. And this is. amplify what, what, what kind of job they do. So there is expectation.

Unfortunately, the world is moving at very fast pace. Yes. And we, as you know, as a professor at health international business school, we, we were very fortunate to embrace AI in the classroom. at the very, very early stages. Because when, when students graduate, they're going to graduate In a world that is utilizing ai true.

So if they're not, if they're not gonna be ready upon [01:30:00] graduation, then we fail them in their preparation, uh, mode. So by all means, uh, a, uh, a safe professional who is AI en enabled. We'll be replacing because he's amplified or she's amplified in terms of what value she brings to her clients compared to those who do not.

Right. So I talk a bit about something called Habibi business. Somebody will give you a meeting. Somebody will interact with you because you know. They like you, Habibi. But after a while, if someone is, if you're going to go drink coffee with someone, they're not adding value. After a while, you're going to say, Habibi, stop coming.

Yes. Because I have a meeting with somebody who's more important or somebody who's able to give me that value. That's that I'm looking for. It was a pleasure having you. Um, thank you for coming. And we really enjoyed this discussion. Um, you have highlighted the, uh, the [01:31:00] key. aspect of the sales cycle. I love what you do.

Um, I watch, uh, your podcast and, and, and I think you are everywhere in the space. Um, thank you very much, uh, for, for your visit. Thank you to come to the show. Any last words? Yeah, something we haven't talked about is what value, so what are the elements that AI, at this moment, at least when we're talking today, is not able to do that we still need a person to do, and that is empathy, connect with another human being.

You know, so never forget that, um, that ability to connect, to understand, uh, to really build that, uh, empathy. So put yourself in someone's shoes, put yourself in someone's shoes is gonna, uh, it's going to [01:32:00] always be there. So this is where the ability to, um, be more human. listen, judgment free, understand, and be able to add value.

So we know empathy and drive. The other thing, drive is your willingness. Remember I said, the customer is somebody who's on, who's under the protection of another. So you gotta be driven to really give value to your customers and the customers will be able to sense that. So when you do these things, right, everything takes care of itself.

Great. Ramez, thank you very much. And for our audience, thank you for your time. Until next time, keep spinning towards success.

And that wraps another episode of Wiki bearings. Don't forget to subscribe for more insights into the fascinating realm [01:33:00] of the engineering innovation. Until next time, keep spinning towards greatness.