THE FUTURE OF MICRO MOBILITY WITH ADAM RIDGWAY

Join us on the Wiki Bearings Podcast as we welcome Adam Ridgway, CEO of OneMoto, to discuss the evolution of micromobility, shared mobility, and the future of EV transportation. From pioneering electric motorcycles to shaping urban mobility policies, Adam shares his insights on last-mile delivery, sustainable transport, and the future of smart cities.

Tune in to discover:

• The challenges and opportunities in micromobility
• How One-Moto is revolutionizing urban EV solutions
• The role of technology, AI, and infrastructure in future mobility

Don’t miss this electrifying conversation—listen now! 🎧

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Wiki bearings, where we dive into the worlds of engineering excellence, from the automotive marvels to the industrial giants. Join us to explore the wonders that keeps the world in motion. My name is Hassanein Alwan, and I'm your host.

Welcome to another episode of Wiki bearings. In this episode, we're going to talk about micromobility, maybe shared mobility, mobility in general. And I have a very special guest, Adam Ridgway, which has been The pioneer in establishing urban mobility, establishing a brand that's today one of the most well known brand into, let's call it the electrical scooters, electrical motorcycles.

Adam, lovely to have you. What a wonderful introduction. Thank you. That's great. Adam, [00:01:00] um, I've been following your steps, what you're doing. It's great to see you at the studio here. Tell us a little bit about OneMoto. I don't need to, you've been following us. Okay. But for the audience, so OneMoto is an impact driven business.

We're a mobility brand. We create an ecosystem. We design, we build vehicles for purpose. Uh, 90 percent of our business is focused on B2B. So commercial, commercial vehicles. Um, And the convenience of, of the way we move, whether that's moving ourselves. So the motorbikes, for example, or moving products, um, you know, the food industry is, is growing 27 percent year on year, the last mile food.

So when we, when we put the vision of one moto is to build. The world's largest, or the globally, the world's most respected and largest EV mobility brand. And so yeah, we design, we produce, we lease, we've got [00:02:00] the battery tech, uh, the after sales, everything you'd expect from mobility brand. That's one motto.

Great. I, I think what's, uh, what caught my attention is that you were very early in that. Era, I mean today, maybe it's a well established people understand we can have batteries for for almost everything for a car for a vacuum cleaner But I think you were very early there Was was that? Easy choice an easy choice to go for easy choice.

No It was it was back in 2016 And I was very fortunate, I had a classic car that I wanted to get converted to electric. I went to three garages in Dubai, three said, yeah, we can do it. Three failed, they couldn't do it. There was no market, it was, it was before nascent as a market or an industry. So, and I walked out of this one garage and I saw these petrol motorcycles.

And I've, I've ridden petrol motorcycles all my life. And, uh, and [00:03:00] as well as in the UAE. And I walked out and I thought, I wonder if anyone's making those electric. So. That sort of inquisitive mind then led into me asking more questions, speaking to engineers, speaking to people I knew. Then I went and spoke to a company based over here, a last mile delivery company.

I said, well, what do you need from a motorbike in terms of its performance? And what do you need it to do? So now I pulled this team of trusted people together and I said, I've got this idea. Locally, regionally, internationally, people aren't building motorbikes for delivery. It's either a massive opportunity, or there's a very big reason why they're not.

So, who's in? A few people said yes, a few people weren't interested, didn't think it was going to happen. So, uh, I started getting myself submerged into, um, the possibilities of it. And, a couple of years later, we built the prototype, we spent the entire summer Um, testing the bikes, so the hot weather testing [00:04:00] here during the summer, it was brutal.

But you need to do that to really understand if you've got a vehicle. And then from that, it's how do you make yourself future proof? You know, the advances in technology are so quick and so rapid. You need to be agile, dynamic. So we've built this modular way of building vehicles. Um, so you can't get superseded by technology.

And from that, we then decided I think it was around 20, end of 2019 to do I go all in or do I carry on doing what I was doing? And, uh, and I sold my other businesses and I thought, right, I'm going all in. So one motor was a side project for a few years just to get to a certain point. It then started to take its own momentum and then I had to go and make that decision.

So it wasn't easy. We did pioneer, uh, which I'm really proud of. Because of the tenacity it takes of the entire team and we, and the beautiful thing about launching in the UAE was [00:05:00] that the, the government were very charming in listening, but they had never done it before. I'd never done it before. Nobody had done it before.

No one's done it right. So 18 months, we co wrote the legislation with the government here. And. I'm saying this with utter admiration and respect, that if the government are going to say yes to rights and legislation policy for having an unknown brand, unknown vehicles, that have never travelled these roads before, if they're going to make a decision like they're approved, they have to be absolutely sure that these vehicles are the very best.

So we, we, um, set this policy and regulation that then stopped anyone else coming to the market. knowing more to the market than I can unless they meet our benchmark, which is exactly the way it should be. And you can only do that from understanding your vehicles, understanding the market and building a brand of longevity, not a quick win.

I'm going to sell some vehicles and be done with it. It's not a market trade [00:06:00] for some years, but it's about building a solid, reputational brands that has that global ability to scale. I mean, look, so why did you choose? UAE or Dubai to be the, where you start your work or where is this venture starts?

Yeah. Well the, the head office is, is in the uk. Yeah. And I've been living out here for 16 years. Mm-hmm. And I'd seen around 20 16, 17, I'd seen that there was a lot more delivery bikes on the roads. Yeah. And although there was more. I suppose, market awareness and possibility that it'd be easier to open a market in the UK.

Dubai is home. The UAE is home for me and it has been and it will be. So, I started looking at, there was more orange bikes on the road, more green bikes on the road, more teal bikes on the road. And, uh, yeah, absolutely. And I thought, is there, is there a market opportunity here? Because yes, cost of fuel is, is very minimal.[00:07:00] 

But I also know what the riders go through. And they're paying their own fuel. That ends up being around 29 percent of their gross annual salary just to go, just to pay in petrol, even though it's cheap. So I started looking at what could we do in order to achieve a market presence. And as it stands of today, reportedly there's 92, 000 delivery bikes on the roads in Dubai, 142, 000 in the UAE unofficially.

Um, so you, you look at if you can really pioneer a market that you don't expect. And we took that strategy where we enter markets you don't expect, like Nepal, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Ethiopia, Chile. Um, and we've got 13 countries now, but we enter those markets. We're now to make an impact, how to make a difference and how to pioneer change.

So it wasn't easy, but, um, through that opportunity, could it happen? Could it not happen? We thought the UAE, if you're going to make a decision to launch anywhere. [00:08:00] The UAE with the governance and the mindset of try it Um, and here's all of the tools you need to to give it a go. That's why we chose the UAE I think the open mindedness, I mean to to look at Things and to discuss this this this gives the opportunity to you know, collaborate with legislation with Mobility maker or, and you know, the technology is evolving and staying with the legislation that is from 2030 is will not serve neither the market, neither the customer, neither, and then all the safety around it, because at the end, these products would be on the street to have the right legislation at, as you said, that's a standard, which is a high standard, because at the end, this is a safety product.

Before we dive into, uh, more. So when, when we look at products like yours and company like yours, we come to talk [00:09:00] about mobility and then we look at it from a shared mobility or micromobility. I think shared mobility explain a little bit itself, but what is micromobility? So micromobility, the true definition, um, varies from market to market.

True. And. To make it more generic and more universal, it's the smaller forms of mobility that are convenient for everyone. And that might be kick scooters, could be bicycles, e bikes, depends regardless or disregarding the power, whether it's your legs or a battery or motor. Um, it's that smaller form of mobility that's utterly convenient for the everyday person.

And. Yes, they are lighter. They don't go as fast. So legislatively, then there's a governance around what defines it. But really, micromobility for me is that. You know, when, when, when we look at the word [00:10:00] micromobility, it really means very different. From looking at a country like India or compared to a country like Dubai or a country, uh, let's say like the UK or Sweden or Denmark.

And I think this, um, This is changing as well very rapidly with the technology that comes with with micro mobility. And today what we can do and the capabilities of these batteries and now are giving us a different possibility to drive things in a very different way. Um, um, urban micro mobility projected to be primarily transportation mode for one billion people by 2030.

Does this scare you? No, it excites me. And the opportunities there. There was also a report that 80 percent of us will be living in urbanized areas by 2050. That's [00:11:00] 80 percent of the world's population. That's billions. So when you start looking at those urban environments that are getting bigger the, um, the cities that are spreading out, just exactly the same way that I've experienced Dubai over The past 16 years is those, those hubs, that epicenter of now started to merge and blend together, but they then become urbanized as well.

So if you take some of the larger cities where, where air pollution is an issue because of transport and exhaust and smog and so on. Air pollution is the greatest killer of humanity. Around 5 million people a year die by car, by proxy. So it's an incredible opportunity to see the impact that you can have, not just from the vehicles, but we've got an entire ESG framework that all of our distributors have to work with.[00:12:00] 

Otherwise it'll work too, otherwise we won't work with them. So it, it creates a bit of a hindrance. But then when you look at the measurability through telematics, through the data, through AI, through sensors, through so much that we've put into our vehicles and the R& D and the, just the general, um, introduction of our vehicles and what we stand for in society.

It's, it's incredible the measurements that, um, that you can, So you can avail, and with that data, some big decisions can be made. There's congestion zones in various cities in the UK. Um, there's low, low emission zones. So when you look at what we do and how we do it, in those urban environments, it's a huge opportunity.

You know, when, when, when looking at, um, one billion people, it's a big number. And, uh, if we look at, This definitely will drive this [00:13:00] industry into a different size. What do you think would be the key to evolve with the industry? The industry of mobility in general. The key is, is convenience. It's affordability.

Um, the environment means more to some than others, which is okay for now. I don't believe people really buy an EV in the masses because of the environmental benefits. Um, it definitely comes down to commercial, really. Even in the, in the sort of B2B sector that we operate, commerciality is key. So it should be feasible.

Absolutely, absolutely. And you've then got the experience. Now over time, if you take any EV car And I'm not being disrespectful to EV makers out there and other OEMs, but the, the cars that you produce now that you could see in most car parks or on most roads, you could de badge them, take their [00:14:00] branding away and you wouldn't necessarily know other than maybe the shape of the car and the designer, but it has the same functionality, the same talk, the same linear speed, the same.

screen, you know, the, the driver experience is very, very similar. So then it comes down to the price point. Do I see value in a 300, 000 Dirham car, or if I can get the same sort of experience for a hundred thousand Dirhams, am I going to buy it? The chances are the majority, which is the market saying, yeah, I'll go for the cheaper car because I don't see the value in the attachment to that asset.

Um, like, like we used to have, so that's a huge consideration. Um, so the adoption is very much the affordability, the convenience. Batteries are always going to evolve. We've got some fantastic technology that's in the final stage of development that's going to change the industry completely. So really excited about that.

And it's that constant evolution. And it's going to be the smaller mobility players compared to the [00:15:00] larger automotive players, where we've got that agility to. Um, be dynamic and evolve as technology evolves, where you don't have that hindrance of size, you know, that can stop, you'll have incremental betterment, but you won't necessarily have innovation.

Hmm. You know, I read a study saying that, um, in 2030, 60 percent of all transportation would be less than eight kilometers. Between at least in cities and that brings, uh, another bell like I think it's a huge opportunity for this micro mobility because if it's eight kilometer or less, then you really need to take a car, find a parking, do it.

And so, so how do you see this? Um, I mean, eight kilometers is maybe a very big opportunity. Yeah. [00:16:00] Regular distance for this kind of scooters or electrical, uh, bikes. Um, do you see that this is going to be the solution of the future? No, no, I don't. I would say if you take eight kilometers over a metropolitan city, like, Most cities in the world, actually, you don't need to put a label on it.

Eight kilometres is a very large distance that could be 45 minutes on the underground or the metro or the subway. It could be an hour on a bus. It could be an hour and a half if you ride. Stuck in traffic. You know, so by having more, let's say kick scooters, which. I've got massive issues with them as a form of mobility, um, in terms of its scale.

But if you look at, you've got 20, 000 of those going from one part of a city to another, even though it's eight kilometers, that's, that's a [00:17:00] problem. Um, it, public transport is absolutely a solution, but then you, there's only so many carriages, so many buses, so many forms. So then do you start elevating? Do you have, Yeah.

Do you have zip lines to work? Do you have heliports like the, what do you need? And everyone's timing is different. So autonomous will work, but it won't necessarily be that convenient. Is everyone going to be traveling eight kilometers? You know, you said 2030. That's not very long. 2050. Sorry. 2050. It's not really, even that's not a very long time.

But it's the how are we going to move? We're always going to need something delivering I've got an issue with the society that we've created that delivery of everything now. Yeah We're failing surely as human society if we need everything within 10 15 20 minutes We're just not as organized as we were and I think that's a that's a [00:18:00] shame really But anyway, I could go on to that.

Yeah, you know Okay, let's let's look at uh, I think Battery is a big drive of what's going on in the ev On micromobility, probably your your, um, technology. You're talking about some new technologies on battery. I think Lots of company are investing evolving looking at batteries. Um, some of them look at battery is the today the hinder or the obstacle for this technology to evolve some of look at look at it as the next Um, Revolution in in in the technology itself.

Um, I think different countries and different, um, organization automotive players are many of them are investing and betting on this. How do you look at the battery and how it will evolve in the coming years? So taking from [00:19:00] 2016 18 19. Um, we made a decision not to invest in battery tech because of bigger, better players, far deeper pockets, far better R and D teams and engineers and so on would have been buried before it even launched.

So we thought, and then did lots of research, lots of advice globally. And I thought lithium ion is the now and it is this short term future. But then in the back of my mind, it's, is it longterm future? I don't believe it is, but I don't know what else it could have been, you know, going back six, seven years ago.

What, what could it be? I know it's not going to be something. And it, it hasn't evolved enough for lithium ion batteries to be the staple for EVs forevermore. It needs to, it needs incremental betterment to refine. And the batteries are going to get more dense. So they're going to get bigger, smaller, lighter.

The motors, how do they, uh, is there going to be induction charging? There's, there's so much. That you, we don't know, we didn't know [00:20:00] and the batteries are absolutely an investment for some. I do believe that there will be some consolidation throughout the mobility, um, and automotive space in general. The status of owning a vehicle and what brand you're driving or riding is not necessarily as important to the youth or the future.

Um, The future of those commuting, future generation. Um, so yeah, battery technology is, is evolving. Um, I can't say too much about what we're doing yet. Next conversation we have, I will. Okay. But it's, it is changing for the better. And from a price point of view, from the technology point of view, it is, there's a, there's a lot of changes happening and it's exciting.

I think, um, a lot of, um, major players are joining forces. I mean, there is a Sony and [00:21:00] Honda. They are joining forces on investing or researching. Toyota have their own research. All the big players are looking at what would be the next battery technology. And I think, um, it is a very exciting time to see how this and I think we are still Battery 1.

0 and still I think there will be more generation When looking at batteries a lots of concerns comes to charging Recycling, how do you address that? Challenging The way that we've built this business is to rely on third parties as little as possible. So, our motorbikes charge with a three pin socket, or two pin, wherever you are in the world.

So, there's billions of three pin sockets, wall sockets. So that So you don't need to have a special charging Not at all. Okay. Um, because we're focused, in this phase, primarily B2B When you have a depot or [00:22:00] a consignment center, then a charging station on site for one of our vans Absolutely, that that's an easy fix because it's them for you.

Look at a public charging network Everyone's talking about well I'm not gonna buy an EV because the government needs to invest and is it gonna be the government or the landlord of that? I'm a tenant now, but I might not be there next year. And there's lots of conversations. So we haven't gone into that market for various different reasons, but one of them being, it's a hindrance.

We can't rely on our business growing because of someone else needs to invest in the charging infrastructure. Which is the challenge today in EV in general. Absolutely it is. I mean, I have an EV and I know how difficult it is to find or charge your car outside your own charging and you know finding and then It is today an obstacle and, uh, if you move houses, how do you do and all of this?

Yeah, and there's [00:23:00] a huge amount of investment for some really great companies that, some of those we've actually partnered with. And when we look at the future of charging, it will be fast charging, certainly, but then the batteries need to be able to take on that. Um, with lithium ion, yes, there's going to be, going back to the recycling question, there is going to be a problem.

With recycling of those cells, there's a very, very large company that operates in the same, um, sphere as us. And I believe they were saying that 5 million batteries were going back to their warehouse because they've been in the market for 5 years. 5 million of them, and they've got a huge problem on how to recycle them.

I won't mention the name, keep it professional, but that is a problem. The funk is so good. We've got a, say, a solution that's being worked on now, we don't have all the answers, but how can we create energy storage using those cells for rural environments or impoverished areas, communities, [00:24:00] um, towns, villages.

Re adapting the batteries. Absolutely, so it's more repurposing them. Repurpose, okay. And if you can repair, recycle, reuse, repurpose, you take that mindset, then you'll be, you'll have a better Much smaller problem to address and it's part of your responsibility you know the Sorry, we take it as part of our responsibility if you take a any oem you put a battery into an ice car They don't necessarily have any attachment to how are they going to?

Um, dispose, recycle of, of the lead acid batteries, that's not on them, but we're more conscious about creating that. I don't like the cliche of a circulous ecosystem or circular economy, but it is something that we, we need to address. We don't have all the answers, but I think what's important is that we're considering what the [00:25:00] options are and how to do it.

I, I think the, the, the very important part is that we, we have it in mind because today as a, as a growing business, maybe once you have enough car, not cars, uh, motorcycles, scooters on the road, um, This, this, this question would come on the problem. As you said, there is another players that have 5 million batteries at this, at this stage to think about it.

It's a problem, but I think we have in any way to think a bit longterm, what do we do? Repurpose them, uh, recycle, repair, or, and I think again, there is a whole sphere also happening on that side on, on different countries, on different companies and so on. And I think We need to think this is a even more problem on E.

V. Because the size of the batteries are very different. The cost of the batteries are very different. The amount of I mean, this cannot be disposed in the bin. I mean, [00:26:00] these are massive, and I think it is somehow, um, I always call it a collective responsibility to think if it's from a legislation side from a government from a manufacturer from a user, and I think Yes, we, we, today, uh, we don't have the answer to many of, of the question, but I think collaboratively we can find the, and, and once we start solving the problem, we're going to solve this for the whole mobility industry at the end of the day.

You are. And also, if you take a lead acid battery, I don't know whether the average is 12 or 18 months, but how many billions of cars are there on the road? So every 12, 18 months, those batteries are being disposed of somehow. And they're not all ethically recycled. When you start having the battery technology that have got the 5, 8, 10 and in the future more years, even though there's a problem to address, it's an eighth of the volume of problem that lead acid [00:27:00] batteries are.

So it's certainly a consideration. Um, and I feel that we're positioned in a, a beautiful time. Of this evolution that those that were the very early adopters The company that I haven't mentioned but have alluded to They were very very early and they've done incredibly well having a global reach But they had outdated what is now outdated technology in terms of batteries the future They're going to be riding on the coattails of everyone that's, that's invested in those early adopters and those dreamers, doers, you know, the, I suppose people like, like us, um, the crazy ones that they're going to be able to benefit.

And we're in that sort of middle zone that we haven't grown too big. Where we have a problem on our hands, but we are in that transition period of, okay, now we invest in this battery tech because this is the future and it solves a lot of problems that could have [00:28:00] predated us in, um, if we'd have gone too big too soon.

You, you mentioned about the last mile delivery and we see. This is a growing, and I think we can see it in UAE, in Dubai, clearly with the different colors of, of, uh, bikers, but I see it's a global thing now. I mean, we want food delivered. We want our electronic delivered. We want everything delivered. Um, and it is a massive opportunity for a company like you.

How do you see this is gonna change or, evolve your business. So the last mile delivery network in B2B is growing 60 percent and the B2C is growing around 40 percent year on year. So 27 percent globally is that last mile delivery industry. If you take this market, it's vast. From petrol to pharmaceuticals to electronics [00:29:00] to food to Groceries to food, meal prep, and so on.

It's an incredibly vast market of you can get everything delivered, which is far more advanced than it is in other markets. Yeah. And you've got the, the way that the city is built. If we just take Dubai, the way the city is built, you can deliver. Through dark stores or cloud kitchens or, you know, within, within a few minutes, that's only ever going to help what the challenges we face and the, say, we'd be in the industry is how do you communicate that these vehicles can optimize your efficiency?

We, you can tell them or you can show them. So I'd rather show we can demonstrate telemetry helps, um, operationally. For a fleet of motorcycles, you can reduce your OPEX by 74 percent with vans. Yeah. And we demonstrate this, uh, 59 percent [00:30:00] with our vans. And when you, when you, when we speak to fleet operators or whoever our customers are, they're looking at more of a commercial perspective than they are the environmental one.

So if you'd speak into procurement, you have to address this is how you can afford these vehicles that are cheaper. Than your current petrol fleet then from the finance This is how you can be more profitable. So we're almost helping supporting their business to grow by explaining demonstrating This is what you can if you adopt our vehicles this is what you can do and you can't do that with every every vehicle and I won't speak for for others, but We've got our data So you've got the telemetry, then you've got the commerciality, then you can increase productivity.

That is, that's huge. That's only ever going to complement us, the industry, um, help us grow. But we've, because we were the pioneers and others have followed, which I love because it [00:31:00] helps us maintain that. that leading advantage or that competitive advantage. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, it's great because if you don't have competition, you can sort of fall short of, of keep challenging yourself, you know?

So yeah, the, the market is, is growing. It will only help our growth. And because we've got vehicles that have been on the roads now for six years. Our brands trusted we're compared to others or others compared to us. So we've, we've certainly got that, um, we've set that benchmark, which helps when we need to keep pioneering.

Great. Um, so are we going to see a lots of your scooters on the last mile delivery? I'd like to think so. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. I think part of the challenge of adapting a new technology in general now in mobility or another, it's how the legislation, [00:32:00] how the regulatory, you know, evolve with it. And you are now in almost 13 markets.

How do you adapt to this? Um, and I think there is different regulation in different countries that can make an opportunity, but also can be a hinder or an obstacle for. For this kind of technology. Yeah, I can't give away our secret sauce. Yeah. But the, the universal, yeah, the universal answer is collaboration.

And fortunately, because we have set a trend, we have worked with our certificates are the highest. And then you approach any other market and they look at. Where are you? You can say, we're here, here, here, across five continents. So then it's local homologation, which is, can take time. Um, from three days to nine months, you know, so that's the, that's the challenge.

But just by working with [00:33:00] governments, councils, companies, once you start working, um, alongside, that does make it a lot easier. Is, is there any And, and like a direction you, you, you would wish that the governments in general or different countries is trying to go to a certain direction, because I think different country are in different speeds.

Yeah. Um, so what, what is missing for that source to, to be perfect? Yeah. The, the sort of hidden missing ingredient. I don't believe that any governments are doing it wrong. Um, regulation for various different vehicle forms is a challenge. It's been done. Maybe some mistakes have been made. I think everyone would say, yes, they have.

But the, the openness, the mindset of, yes, this could be a something. How do we make it work as opposed to an out and out? No, it's, it's not going to, [00:34:00] um, if you take Norway, which is coined in every. You know, they are pioneering. They're iconoclastic in many ways. And when you start looking at what they've done, the incentives, the rebates, the subsidies, all the things that can cost the government, commercial costs to the government, they've done it, and others have followed.

That's why they are sort of in the milestones of, and the benchmark, the barometer of what could we do. Norway's right up there. And they led the way. By example, and now others have followed. So I think that's, that's wonderful in the UAE. There's very, very, very little, um, incentive to own an EV. Yeah. Almost not, as you know, they, they used to be free registration.

Now there isn't, there's free parking in certain areas, but it's, it's not necessarily saving much money. The finance drop half a percent on your interest rate on buying a X thousand [00:35:00] Durham vehicle doesn't really help. Um, But again, when a decision is made by the government, they are coming, and I know that because we're working with them, but when they, when they do arrive, they'll be there for the long haul.

And so although some governments can be a little bit slower, some can be quite reactive and responsive and proactive, there's a, there's a measurement of, is this for the long haul or is it for short term? And there's no real right or wrong, it's just when it, when it works, when it's, when that decision's made.

then it'll be the right time and that's when you'll start seeing more adoption. But you can't just have all these wonderful subsidies and the availability of vehicles isn't there. That doesn't help. If everyone's buying an EV because it's far less expensive than an ICE vehicle, but you can't charge it, that's a problem.

So it's finding that balance between subsidies, availability, the charging infrastructure, the finance. The convenience of [00:36:00] owning vehicles, and then we start looking at shared mobility. There's a lot. Yeah. Um, now I've, I've seen like a, a reflex on some cities in Europe, especially Paris. And I think, uh, part of other European cities banning these electrical scooters.

How do you see this? Uh, will this Uh, be a replication happening is, is this is, um, how do you see it from an early adopter of this technology? I don't really value, as I said earlier, I don't really value the kick scooter market as a business. I do as a vehicle for the everyday person to get to and from the station or to and from the office or a taxi or from where they park to where they're going to.

I do see that, but growing up in the UK. Whenever you were on a bicycle, you had something called a cycle proficiency test that you did when you were about nine or twelve, I can't remember. [00:37:00] And it's how to ride safely, how to use your vehicle safely, how to understand how the brakes work and so on. Make sure you wear a helmet, where to look and how to, how to maneuver.

And the awareness of the traffic around you was incredible. I know a lot of other countries have this. With. Those that are on kick scooters, it's such a novice, uh, sorry, uh, it's such a, um, new form of technology, mobility, that some parents are allowing their kids to have it with not wearing a helmet, so the safety isn't an issue.

If anything were to happen to them, the parents would be beside themselves, so there's a problem there. Yes, cities aren't built for, sorry, the majority of cities aren't built with these scooter lanes and bike lanes, they're retrofitted, and that's not a problem, but it comes down to the riders of these vehicles, are they, are they acknowledging the road [00:38:00] rules, or the sidewalk, or the pavement, are they acknowledging other, um, pedestrians, and I don't believe that many of them are, and if you look at, go down literally any road, In Dubai, and you've got someone that's on, you know, the yellow lines going fast or faster than some of the cars, I can understand it's convenient.

So I respect it as a form of mobility, but the regulation, the government got a terrible time trying to regulate these vehicles. How do you do that? Do you create, do you put telemetry in all of the vehicles? Do you mandate everyone have a proficiency test? Um, is there with the technology and the AI and cameras?

You know, the road and traffic cameras, if you're not wearing a helmet, do you get fined? How do you fine that person if they're of school age? Yeah. You know, there's lots and lots of problems. So it's a, it's a market, a sector within mobility that I, you'll never see one moto being a part of. [00:39:00] And why not and now that you put it this way I can understand and I think this is where it's Not yet regulated and there is no clear Guidelines how to regulate this and I think maybe in the future it would be One way or another regulated you could but then if you take some of the peer to peer sharing companies that have raised billions against the valuation and now they're about a tenth of what they were X amount of years ago.

Um, you've got these mountains of kick scooters that are piled up in various different cities. Yeah. Some try to offer a helmet that you could use, you know, within a holder, but then you've got the safety or the, um, the hygiene, Yeah, the hygiene, Right, you've got that, but One of the fundamental things, which is really unfortunate is most of us humans don't [00:40:00] respect things as much if we don't own them.

We've all had a higher car and we've driven it like we've stolen it and so on. But when you take a scooter, it's just a scooter. They tell me I can park it anywhere. Okay, I will. There's not a respect to, because of the lack of ownership, there's not the respect to it. If that was your scooter, would you park it there?

Would you allow it to potentially get knocked over by someone else? Or would you look after it a lot more? So the regulation is a huge challenge globally. And, you know, a lot of, uh, there's more negatives around the everyday person of a community or society that complains about them. That's what you hear anyway.

Yeah. But there's huge benefits of convenience of going around a city. But Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a very, very challenging, complex problem. Now, looking at, uh, Juan Morto as, as a mobility, let's call it mobility solution [00:41:00] provider, what would be the, the ideal solution for the next generation? The solution it, as you mentioned earlier, every country has its own use case and it has its own need as we're focused on that last mile delivery.

And you can say it's a nation. I'd agree. It's a, it's a big niche. But when you start looking at how you become a global brand or an international one. At the moment, we're still a small company, um, very modular by design of the vehicles and the management and the, the operations. It's how can you add the greatest value to your customers?

And the future for us is making sure that experience is there. Um, if we get asked the question about the end of life. What is our answer? We make sure that when If you're in the UK, you can lease our bikes for [00:42:00] three pound a day If you're in India and you can and the market says four thousand rupees is the acceptable price for the market You need to be able to provide a vehicle for four thousand rupees a month If you're a gig worker and you get paid one dollar fifty per delivery You need to make sure that vehicle is affordable, right?

So you you're the focus is how much? commercially, how much money they can make, the benefits of the environmental side, the carbon offset and the carbon credits and everything else that can go along with that is associated to the fleet owner. So those, the asset owner, and that's something we don't have all the answers to, but we will do at some point.

And then that will lead us, whichever monetary commercial benefits there are there that will allow us to then provide mobility for all. In those published communities in most published areas that don't have the ability to commute by vehicle, but they have the want to work, but it might not have work [00:43:00] right near them.

So how can they get from A to B using a form of mobility? That is my responsibility of a problem to solve. So. Hopefully that's answered your question. Great. No, no, I love, I mean, at the end, it's, it's how things would evolve and how the new generation gonna look at mobility. I think we lived in, in an era where owning a car was on the top of our list.

Status, yeah. Yeah, status. The first thing you think, I want to have a driving license when I'm 18, I want to buy a car. Independence, absolutely. And, and I think there was lots of passion of owning a car. Um, lots of passion of owning a good car. The sound of the engine was something we looked for, you know.

And, and, and I think it was a time which I feel it's changing with the new generation. And how they look at mobility is, is, is also changing. Oh, it's huge. I think it's slightly [00:44:00] broader than that as well, and I totally agree with you. It's the attachment to assets. Whether it's a house. Most people don't have the money to be able to just go and buy a house outright.

So you mortgage it. It's based on 30 percent of your salary. Whatever the percentage is. When you look at a car, Yes, I might want to go and buy a 300, 000 dirham car. Can I afford it outright? No. Can I lease it? Possibly but do I see value in in that lease if it's an ev they're they're very expensive at the moment And that price will come down the market has to recalibrate but the actual attachment to the asset and the status I would say, and I might be contrary here, but I'd say that the majority of the early adopters of Tesla weren't necessarily because it was an environmental consideration, or the buying trigger was of an environmental one.

It was more of a status. Yeah. And now if you look at the more vehicles that are on the roads, [00:45:00] It's not necessarily a status symbol. It's convenience. And if you look at shared mobility, with the youth, they're not necessarily travelling as long a distance as we were when we were in our early days of work and so on.

The public transport system's better. It's also cheaper. And if I don't have to travel as far and as often, why do I need a car? And I guess the youth, or the next generation, haven't necessarily considered this. But a car reportedly is dormant 90 percent of its life. So just from an asset ownership investment, ROI point of view, having a vehicle doesn't really make sense.

It's a terrible investment. If you've got a high cost vehicle that's sat 90 percent of its life parked somewhere, that's, that's not great investment, is it? And are the youth more about experiences?

I think you could argue yes and no, depending on where you're, where you're from and what you're looking for. [00:46:00] But the shared ownership, if I can get from point A to point B and it hasn't really cost me anything, then you start looking at autonomous vehicles and the convenience of that and public transport.

I don't believe. The attachment to that supercar or that car that you had as a on a poster on a wall when you were younger, that's not aspirational anymore. The consideration of what is aspirational has changed and I believe it's more about experience than it is asset. Uh, you, you, when, when you're mentioning about shared mobility and I think this is where This is in some countries, it's it's it's picking up way way faster.

I mean we have we have some solutions here in UAE or in Dubai, but I think in some countries this becomes the net almost than the the new normal and And do you see this is also coming to the the micro mobility as well? Yes [00:47:00] if you take the say delivery motorbikes and Then, if you take that on a peer to peer model, it could, you know, in some environments.

If you take it on a tourist model, it could, again, in some environments. There's always that want of convenience, so if, is, if I need to get somewhere, I want to know that a car or a vehicle is available outside my villa or outside. You know, where you live or where you work and you want to be able to get to point A to point B with as little convenient inconvenience as possible.

I don't want to walk a kilometer to go and get a car to then drive two kilometers down the road to then park it. Someone else has got it by the time I, um, want to get back. There's a lot of inconvenience around that. So having a vehicle, I definitely see as, as value in the micro mobility within the mobility sector that we operate for delivery.

Yes. But then that depends on the times that you're working. So in the UAE, if you got two [00:48:00] shifts, yeah, one vehicle for two shifts, not a problem. If you live in a certain part of town, um, and you might do some deliveries in the morning, then you've got university, and then you've got a few deliveries of an evening, or you've got a spare bit of time, and you think, I'm going to go and do some contracts, gig work.

You need to have that vehicle. So I don't think there's an out and out answer of yes, it will apply, um, across the board. It'll definitely be use case scenario. We'll define that. I, I think when we look at share mobility, I think, uh, it, it's also how, and, and I think regulation registration, how is it that, um, I, I think.

Probably adapt, there will be, I mean, you know very well, a lot of these kick scooters companies have done a massive work, maybe there is wrong and right, there's some, um, they, but if, but in general, um, it's becomes [00:49:00] much more acceptable, even in car ownership, now, okay, owning a car, I come across, and I was in the US, I come across an app, which I didn't know it existed, I called and, a friend of mine, I said, you know, I'm thinking to rent a car.

I have the weekend, maybe look around and see what's going on. He said, Why are you gonna rent a car? Check this out. And the app was, it's like you as a car owner, you put your car there, when you don't need the car. And Once you install, I maybe something on that car. So through the app you can unlock the car if you have rented that car So it's a shared mobile.

It's you own the car, but that's a Six hours a day. You don't need the car because it's parked somewhere Then you I haven't seen that model, but it's having your own car and still be able to do Lend this out [00:50:00] was yeah, there was about seven What would it have been, four or five years ago, there was a company that wanted to do exactly that.

Yeah, they tried here in the UAE. Yeah, and I believe they're originally from Saudi, and, and I thought, yeah, nice idea, but what would happen if I drive to work and I'm there for eight hours, someone else takes the car and doesn't deliver it back? I'm inconvenienced. So immediately, there's an obstacle that I'm not going to address.

And do I really want the money? You know, is it a consideration? Inconvenience as opposed to earning a few dollars or whatever it may have been. But there is, I heard on the radio last week or the week before, that there's a, if you lease a car, they're offering exactly that service. That you can then get part of your lease money back.

I heard it on the radio, I can't remember the name of the company, but I thought it's a brilliant idea, but is it going to work in mass adoption? And [00:51:00] the RTA actually this week announced that there's say shared mobility in terms of taxis for, I'd say it's more carpooling than shared mobility from Dubai to Abu Dhabi.

And nice idea. Is that mass adoption? I don't know. It's basically creating a small version of a bus that can sit up to four people. Is that economically worthwhile? Is that going to be mass adopted? I, I love the fact that there's an initiative there of a problem being solved, but is it going to be used as much?

I don't know. I think, I think we will never know until, uh, Hopefully it is. If there are people that are coming from say Dubai to Abu Dhabi and they want to get in a taxi and save whatever the money is, if it's convenient, you'll save the money. Yes. But maybe that's It's unfair because there's access to a bit more disposable income here as other parts of the world.

Sure. Um, but [00:52:00] if I need to get somewhere for a meeting, I'll pay whatever it takes to make sure I'm not late. Yeah. But that's only my approach. Other approaches might be more organized, I don't know. And I think this, we are in an era where there is a lot of change going on. Yeah. We are transforming. With 5G, the technology, the AI, I have one more question about AI, but we'll come to that point.

But I mean, this is giving us to, by our own eyes, observe all of these changes. And there is so many things, and I love that we are living that transition, you know, through Eyes to electric from one battery to another. The five G, which is connected cars, uh, data. And so, um, I think I think it's a very interesting time that we are witnessing all of these changes.

Um, to one of my last questions. Um, data. I think we [00:53:00] all know that data going to be the next it's already here. I mean, and how do you measure. How do you work on this data? And is AI part of your, of your future adaptation? It's part of our now. Okay. We've been using it without actually laboring it as AI.

It's just part of our DNA of our business and being different, pioneering, challenging ourselves. But if we were to use the cliche that it's become, and I'm saying that positively, In terms of what do we use in our telemetry, so the hardware and the software, to operate a fleet rider management software, what do we do with that data?

Is it valuable? Um, what can be done with it to which party? So there's, from a fleet operator, can it optimise routes, can you create microzones, can you deploy vehicles in, that are going to be optimised in the most effective way, and are the riders then able [00:54:00] to do more deliveries per hour, so they're earning more money, um, they're, uh, they're getting a quota of volume of deliveries per day, um, as quickly as possible, so then they don't have to work those extra hours, therefore they don't have to work in pressure, They don't have the hours on the road.

They're not as tired. There's less accidents and then less fatalities. That's one side, but then you look at the government, um, or so the roads and transports authorities, when you can provide that level of data, they can see traffic flow. You can help them with congestion, especially with motorbikes when they're There's a bit more free flowing than some cars in traffic jams.

So when you look at the congestion and the free flow of traffic and then what is being delivered and what is that movement throughout a city or a community or an environment, there's a lot that can be done. But data is only valuable if you know how to read it, process it and use it for betterment. And AI certainly helps with that.[00:55:00] 

Um, but it's not. Um, it's not the solution unless you've got the ability to read it, process it and implement. It's not a goal. It's a tool that I think we can, we can do a lot now more than we were able to do 10 years ago. And I think the power of the technology, the GPUs and what we can do with the data today, having a structured data, um, is, is, is a lot of value.

And I think we can. The value is in what do you do with the data and how you process it, how you read it, how you maybe reprocess these data. I also think there's with technology, with data, with the the way that we're progressing or using technology to progress, we need to be really careful that we don't just Create an environment where we stop ourselves being human.

You don't need that much technology to make your life that better, that more efficient, that quicker. I can do to be a robot. [00:56:00] You don't. We're human. We need to step back and, and not regress. Use technology for how it can help us. But does it need to make Does it Do I need to process, um, 30, 000 decisions?

Now, compared to like when humans at the stone age, you know, that's, we, we now as humans process 30, 000 thoughts a day compared to the one a day during the stone age. We have technology. Our brains aren't keeping up to the speed that technology and decisions are. So that's, that's hurting us as humans. So we still need to be human.

And live this one life that we have. I think, um, technology is, is, can be used in a, in a good way or in a bad way, right? I mean, it's a tool and I always say that AI is not a goal. It's part of any tool that we had. We had computers and we had phones and we, we evolved. And, uh, and I think, [00:57:00] um, what we, what we can do with the data that we have, I think will help.

Maybe reshape what the technology or how we can add more convenience, because I think at the end of the day, convenience becomes the, the, the words of, of, of mobility of anything we do today. We value convenience much more than Stone Age, at least. Adam, um, it was lovely having you, uh, I, uh, thank you for, for coming to the show.

Um, any last word for our audience? I don't think, I think I've said enough over this time, but, um, I'm very, very grateful for the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you very much. For our audience, thank you for this episode. Keep spinning towards And that wraps another [00:58:00] episode of Wiki bearings. Don't forget to subscribe for more insights into the fascinating realm of the engineering innovation.

Until next time, keep spinning towards greatness.